Renovating A Commercial Building : Concrete Block Walls, Drop Ceiling Questions

 
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Old 05-10-2010, 03:07 PM   #1
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Renovating A Commercial Building : Concrete Block Walls, Drop Ceiling Questions


I typically in the past have done primarily renovations, and or residential new construction. I have a friend whos having me knock a concrete block wall down, and build a finished room to suit.

Is it easier to use metal studs or wood studs? (Affixing them to the block walls is my question?

With drop ceilings, where is the best place to get the materials/lights from?

Typically with concrete block walls, what type of insulation should I use? Do I need it on the interior walls or just the exterior?

Anything else I should watch out for?
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Old 05-10-2010, 03:29 PM   #2
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Re: Renovating A Commercial Building : Concrete Block Walls, Drop Ceiling Questions


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Originally Posted by SWConstruction View Post
I typically in the past have done primarily renovations, and or residential new construction. I have a friend whos having me knock a concrete block wall down, and build a finished room to suit.

Is it easier to use metal studs or wood studs? (Affixing them to the block walls is my question?

With drop ceilings, where is the best place to get the materials/lights from?

Typically with concrete block walls, what type of insulation should I use? Do I need it on the interior walls or just the exterior?

Anything else I should watch out for?
1) Better be careful about knocking down a block wall. It just might be there for a reason.

2) Metal/wood studs to CMU wall attach the same for either one.

3) Commercial Supply House or Commercial Lumber yard.

4) Insulation, it depends on what you are trying to do & how much money you have.

5) Yourself.

You really don't sound like a Contractor. If you were you wouldn't be asking some of the silly questions you have. You should contact a pro.

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Old 05-10-2010, 03:41 PM   #3
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Re: Renovating A Commercial Building : Concrete Block Walls, Drop Ceiling Questions


Im not here to prove myself to anyone. Block wall was added as a partition after building was in place.

Thanks for being an ass hat though!
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Old 05-10-2010, 03:44 PM   #4
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Re: Renovating A Commercial Building : Concrete Block Walls, Drop Ceiling Questions


What is an ass hat?

Griz is right
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Old 05-10-2010, 04:16 PM   #5
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Re: Renovating A Commercial Building : Concrete Block Walls, Drop Ceiling Questions


i agrre w the above posts
I would say if u don't know where to get ur materials from u shouldn't be calling yourself a contractor. its not like ceiling grid and tile are hard to find items.
we use metal studs on all our commercial jobs.

an fyi
don't know what the extent of ur renovation is going to be. We've been on a commercial reno for the last few mos and it is a disaster. when we open up a wall or get into the ceiling or anything and see how its put together we are amazed that this thing is standing. That being said. regardless of who did it, u as the contractor who is working on it and has discovered these problems have an obligation to bring any issues to the owner and address them as necessary.
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Old 05-10-2010, 04:46 PM   #6
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Re: Renovating A Commercial Building : Concrete Block Walls, Drop Ceiling Questions


wow, some of you guys are harsh, he is looking for some help. I know we don't live near him, so the question about where to buy the ceiling tiles /grids from is a silly question but this forum is here for pros to help other pros out. do all of us know everything about all jobs? he hasn't worked in some of these situations and wants some help. instead of bashing him and saying he's not a contractor why not help? or just not answer at all if you don't have anything constructive to put into the thread.

Insulation for block walls, if it's a basement or damp area would be either rigid foam insulation usually found in 2x8 sheets, some are tongue and groove. If you aren't familiar with metals studs which many residential guys aren't, myself included, then go with wood. make sure you tape the seams of the rigid foam insulation behind the studs. this will help keep moisture out of the wall cavity. Some guys like to go with fiberglass but that is asking for mold issues later on from the block.
for interior walls not against block, you can use unfaced fiberglass insulation if needed.

hope this helps. call any commercial supply house and they will have drop ceiling prices and material available. The guys that work with commercial all the time think that everyone should know but with residential, we see very little drop ceilings. I hate them actually. but if someone asks for them, then I do it. Still, I'd rather drywall it.
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Old 05-10-2010, 05:46 PM   #7
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Re: Renovating A Commercial Building : Concrete Block Walls, Drop Ceiling Questions


Calling Griz an asshat is inexcusable. You come here, asking pretty rudimentary questions, and then you immediately go on the attack. From your other posts, it seems like you are more of a flipper than a contractor.

You were right on the cusp of receiving help, but now you can be assured that you have alienated many
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Old 05-10-2010, 06:55 PM   #8
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Re: Renovating A Commercial Building : Concrete Block Walls, Drop Ceiling Questions


Apgar, thank you, you answered my questions quite well.

As for the others, please re read the thread,I was the one accused of being a 'fake contractor'. I make a great living on a daily basis, and work inquired is always different and unique. But once again, im not here for a dick swinging contest on who knows more or why they dont. This is a forum, and its easier to get answers than scrolling through google.
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:29 PM   #9
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Re: Renovating A Commercial Building : Concrete Block Walls, Drop Ceiling Questions


I'm didn't scroll through the entire thread...but caught apgar's note.

I buy my ceiling tile materials (and insulation) from SPi-they're a big presence in NJ and PA-google them. their insulation prices are great-I haven't compared on ceiling tile material, just use them b/c that's the source I have and they can get it w/in a couple of days if it's an odd request.
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Old 05-11-2010, 07:09 PM   #10
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Re: Renovating A Commercial Building : Concrete Block Walls, Drop Ceiling Questions


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Originally Posted by SWConstruction View Post
I typically in the past have done primarily renovations, and or residential new construction. I have a friend whos having me knock a concrete block wall down, and build a finished room to suit.

Is it easier to use metal studs or wood studs? (Affixing them to the block walls is my question?

Metal is much faster and easier to work with if your familiar with them. Stick with atleast 20 gauge, anything less is like tin foil, but they can still be cut with snips. Keep in mind though, if they plan on having shelving and other heavy things hanging on the walls wood may be better. Also, if you go with metal, dont forget to sure up door ways and windows with wood blocking for securing the doors/jams later.

With drop ceilings, where is the best place to get the materials/lights from?

We get ours from Marjam. They can help your determine how much you need if your not familiar with ordering drop ceiling.( marjam.com). You can also get your studs, insulation, sheetrock ect from them. Boom delivery is free with minumum order.

Typically with concrete block walls, what type of insulation should I use? Do I need it on the interior walls or just the exterior?

Like apgar said, rigid board insulation. In regards to interior walls, I like to insulate them to provide extra sound deadening between rooms. Especially in office settings.

Anything else I should watch out for?
If the person who built that CMU partition wall was had any clue what he was doing, its probably doweled into the floor so you might need more than a 10lb sledge to take it down.

besides that, good luck with the project
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:35 PM   #11
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Re: Renovating A Commercial Building : Concrete Block Walls, Drop Ceiling Questions


Thanks! good info and website!
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:05 PM   #12
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Re: Renovating A Commercial Building : Concrete Block Walls, Drop Ceiling Questions


Hey SW, I see you are from PA. Are you from around Pittsburgh at all?



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Old 06-03-2010, 03:28 PM   #13
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Re: Renovating A Commercial Building : Concrete Block Walls, Drop Ceiling Questions


if you go with metal studs and need to do wood blocking for any reason, you can use 3/4" plywood cut into lengths that measure the inside of stud 1 to outside of stud 2. Then you take a router and cut a groove 1" or so off the edge that fits the turndown inside the metal stud. Be sure you start off screwing them in in the right direction or you'll have to start over. By that, I mean that you'll see you can screw into the face of one stud and into the blocking because of the groove you cut.... but you'll have to put the screws on the other end of the blocking from inside the next stud, screwing it into the edge of the plywood blocking rather than into the face. If you go in the wrong direction, you won't be able to get to it.
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Old 07-16-2010, 04:41 PM   #14
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Re: Renovating A Commercial Building : Concrete Block Walls, Drop Ceiling Questions


metal studs are required in all commercial buildings per fire codes,the other stuff you should be able to figure out yourself
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Old 07-16-2010, 05:30 PM   #15
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Re: Renovating A Commercial Building : Concrete Block Walls, Drop Ceiling Questions


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metal studs are required in all commercial buildings per fire codes,the other stuff you should be able to figure out yourself
That totally depends on the application and is generally o.k. except in certain situations.
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Old 07-16-2010, 05:37 PM   #16
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Re: Renovating A Commercial Building : Concrete Block Walls, Drop Ceiling Questions


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That totally depends on the application and is generally o.k. except in certain situations.

Beat me to it. I was going to say the same a little less delicately.
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Old 07-16-2010, 05:41 PM   #17
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Beat me to it. I was going to say the same a little less delicately.
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Old 08-06-2010, 03:26 PM   #18
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Re: Renovating A Commercial Building : Concrete Block Walls, Drop Ceiling Questions


There is always a learning curve, you go from decks to bathrooms learning curve, you go from commercial to residential or vice versa learning curve.

Every single person that does a job at some point no matter how many books or tests were taken had to learn and figure it out!!! No one is born with complete knowledge of anything I don't care who you are.

Any deviations, new conditions, new material ANYTHING requires figuring it out and learning.

And everyone who is in this business learned on someones job. That means the owners/contractors were paying for you to learn something or figure it out at some point in your career with their money on their time.

Its virtually impossible to do it any other way, and thank god their are people who are willing to take chances on others otherwise no one would ever get to work.
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Old 08-07-2010, 11:42 AM   #19
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Re: Renovating A Commercial Building : Concrete Block Walls, Drop Ceiling Questions


Always use metal studs in commercial building even though its not REQUIRED. Why not just attach the metal studs to the CMU's then insulate inbetween the metal studs for added insulation? Unless, you need to open up the space to enlarge the room.

No matter what advice you give this guy, especially the negative, he is STILL MORE THAN LIKELY GOING TO ATTEMPT THE JOB ANYWAY and probably do it WRONG!!! So, why not just tell him how to do it right and help him grow in commercial building knowledge, rather then let him screw something up which might cost the life or injury of another?

He very well might not be qualified for the job but he's gonna do it anyway, so why not tell him how to do it right? As others have said, you have to learn somewhere and he came here for advice on what to do. So why be assholes? I'm 25yrs old and own my own business doing Commercial Finish outs, Remodeling and Renovation work and have a degree in commercial construction management. I for sure do not know everything, but have many resources that help me along the way which make me a successful contractor who works off word of mouth business.

If you know how to read blueprints or are provided with them. All you have to do is know general practices and how to read them and you can pretty much get the job done.

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Old 08-17-2010, 05:49 PM   #20
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Re: Renovating A Commercial Building : Concrete Block Walls, Drop Ceiling Questions


The fact/thing that is missing is that does the contract involve - interior finishing or some exterior walls? Adding exterior insulation would make this a different "animal". What do the drawings or contract say? Certainly a contractor would need some requirements or drawings, since it does not sould like maintenance job.

Wrinkled tin works well in commercial spaces because it is fast, cheap and easy to remove as needs change. There are many well established methods for attachment to anything.

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