Question for GC'S about the sub bidding process - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

kc brick layer · 01-05-2009, 09:12 PM

I have a waterproofing company. We do caulking and below grade waterproofing. I been starting to bid some projects but i havnt been getting any response back from the GC'S. I even call them to see how my bid compared but they act like there not interested in talking with me. My question is...Do large GC companys generally use one sub they like for smaller things on a project, like caulking? Do they not even look at other bids? $5,000 - $15,000 is my average bids to give an example on the size of jobs im bidding on. Wouldnt a GC want a competitive bid on sections of work this size?

Chris Johnson · 01-05-2009, 10:13 PM

Usually and I mean usually, most GC's are happy with their regular subs, you are asked to bid for one of two reasons, 1) keep their regular sub 'honest' 2) GC's are usually cost plus, they need to show the owner more than one bid on a line item showing them what the costs are. Even if you are cheaper, see reason #1

If you want to break in to the commercial business, it's not what you know, but who you know. And if you make that happen your marketing budget goes down a lot.

kc brick layer · 01-05-2009, 11:40 PM

Would you think if i offered these GC a low bid just being my labor costs plus material and overhead and not add any proffit to the job in order to get my foot into the door. If i called the GC and proposed this idea do you think they would entertain this idea?

I would like to hear from some GC's and see what you would think if someone called and proposed this to you.

skyhook · 01-06-2009, 01:04 AM

I'm always looking for new subs. People move, people quit, people die. You might call just when I'm looking for someone, or you might call when I'm happy with the sub I have but will keep your card in case something comes up.
Keep bidding. If you do good work, you will get a break.

SLSTech · 01-06-2009, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kc brick layer

Would you think if i offered these GC a low bid just being my labor costs plus material and overhead and not add any profit to the job in order to get my foot into the door. If i called the GC and proposed this idea do you think they would entertain this idea?

I would like to hear from some GC's and see what you would think if someone called and proposed this to you.

NO - if your labor or material costs go up - you lose money

Some GC's will be expecting that to be your price for the next job, etc...

As for the proposal part, assuming you met the requirements - I would be leery, why? You sound desperate, will you cut corners seeing you are desperate, & will you be around in the future to correct any warranty issues

Super-Mike · 01-06-2009, 10:38 PM

Give a low price but you still gotta make some money yourself.

And yea, most GCs already have someone they use a lot for stuff like that, but you can get in the door.. especially right now if your prices are good. GCs are cutting costs down to the bone just to stay open.

Bid lots and lots of work for everyone you can. You do good work, show up when you say you will and get along with people on site you'll get work.

**joasis** · 01-07-2009, 07:03 AM

This all goes back to developing relationships with GC's. It can take a lot of time.

Here is an example: Several years ago, I did a commercial office....nice job, and the tape,bed,texture, paint, and stain was worth 25k.......I used the a friend, the same guy that does a lot of my custom work today.....now here is the kicker. Another guy wanted and needed that job, his bid was about the same, and we went to high school together....big deal, right?

My son needs all the hook-ups he can get while building his insulation business, and this guy has a lot of contacts and could send work his way, but he remembers how I picked another sub over him.

It can be a 2 way street. I am letting three hvac guys bid a sanctuary project I am working on, and they all know the buddy system doesn't apply here.

bwalley · 01-07-2009, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kc brick layer

I have a waterproofing company. We do caulking and below grade waterproofing. I been starting to bid some projects but i havnt been getting any response back from the GC'S. I even call them to see how my bid compared but they act like there not interested in talking with me. My question is...Do large GC companys generally use one sub they like for smaller things on a project, like caulking? Do they not even look at other bids? $5,000 - $15,000 is my average bids to give an example on the size of jobs im bidding on. Wouldnt a GC want a competitive bid on sections of work this size?

I am loyal to my subs, but sometimes they can't take care of me so I have to look at other subs, also getting bids from other subs makes sure you are in line with current pricing, price is not always the main consideration.

I am doing a commercial job now, it is cost plus, so if I hire the more expensive sub, I have to have a good reason for it, but just because one guy is cheaper than the other, does not mean he is the one to go with.

Keep trying what you are doing, don't underbid work because that is how you get hurt and if you look desperate, I would be concerned about the job getting finished and done properly.

I have in the past looked at bids and my preferred sub was considerably cheaper than the other guys, so I asked him to review his numbers, because I thought he missed something, which he did, he revised the bid and won the contract, if he did the jo at the 1st price quoted he would have lost money, if the guy goes out of business, he doesn't do me any good.

I have also had preferred subs being way higher than the other bids and had them look at the numbers, and sometimes (usually) they can adjust them because again they may have been a little heavy on materials or labor.

Bidding work is not a science, it is an art, and the more you do, the better you get.

Sometimes you will "go to school", I have done it a few times and didn't like it, but it comes with the territory.

In case you don't know what I mean by going to school, that is when you screw up and underbid a job or don't write the contract properly to cover unexpected circumstances and the job cost's you money to do, and since you have to pay when you go to school and you learn something, that is why I call it going to school.

kc brick layer · 02-23-2009, 11:13 PM

Thank you for all your answers. It just sucks spending days on bids and not even getting them looked at. I have however been invited as a sub to bid on a large school. This is a negotiated project with the GC. Sealed bids will be taken and are going to be publicly read out loud. lowest qualified bid will be accepted. i have to fill out info on my company. we have only been in business for 1 year. If im low bidder, could i still be qualified with less than a year in business and this project being 2 times bigger than i have done? If you dont think so should i still be bidding to show that i am serious for future projects?

Chris Johnson · 02-23-2009, 11:31 PM

You bid it, no questions asked.

If you don't get it, they are being read aloud, try and figure out where you need to tighten things up.

If you do get it, try and figure out what you did wrong to be the lowest bidder!!!

Just kidding, good luck.

Even if the project is large, maybe larger than you have done before, if you can demonstrate that you do have the ability to work on large projects you will get the break you need and deserve.

We all started somewhere and someone took a gamble with all of us.

Willie T · 02-23-2009, 11:47 PM

If you learn nothing in this struggle to figure out bidding, remember this.

"You can have anything you want if you help enough other people get what they want."

As in ANY business, you are, first and foremost, in the PEOPLE business. You must learn the knack of bidding to the prospective employer as well as simply bidding the numbers.

Go back through some of these comments. You'll see remarks about timing, relationships, persistence, networking, standing for something, consistency, workmanship, congeniality, and face-to-face interaction.

It's people dealing with people. You have to do it with us, we have to do it with our clients, suppliers have to work the knack with everyone, it's all inter connected. And it requires you getting out there, physically, and becoming known.

Learn your market. What it is. Where it is. When it peaks and slumps. And most importantly who it is. What they like. What they need... and when, exactly, they'll need it. What they want to see and hear. (Each one is a different person)

Study and learn the job schedules in your area. Be the one there WHEN they need you to be there. Be ready to deliver.... NOW... not at a scheduled date sometime in the future. Say things like "How'd you like to get that handled at seven o'clock tomorrow morning?" "You want me to put those next seven buildings on schedule and give you a call two days before coming on out and handling it for you?"

Are you seeing how my comments are geared to giving the GC what he wants, and often needs, in order to get the job you want? Anticipate. Offer suggestions and alternatives. Our jobs are all about both of those. If you can take a part of the task of building a small house or a sub division off my hands and free me to concentrate elsewhere, you will be working for me for many years to come.

Bob Kovacs · 02-24-2009, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kc brick layer

Thank you for all your answers. It just sucks spending days on bids and not even getting them looked at. I have however been invited as a sub to bid on a large school. This is a negotiated project with the GC. Sealed bids will be taken and are going to be publicly read out loud. lowest qualified bid will be accepted. i have to fill out info on my company. we have only been in business for 1 year. If im low bidder, could i still be qualified with less than a year in business and this project being 2 times bigger than i have done? If you dont think so should i still be bidding to show that i am serious for future projects?

It's not that your bid wasn't looked at- it's just that the GC often has bigger, more important packages to deal with/worry about on bid day than your $15k waterproofing and caulking number. We often got phone calls after bids from the various bidders, and I'd try to call them back or take their calls whenever possible, but when I've got a $2 million steel package to buy out, I've got to put my time and efforts there, rather than talking to the $15k caulking sub. I know that may sound harsh, but sometimes that's reality.

And the sealed bids being read aloud won't help you to know if you were the low caulking bidder- they only read the GC's total bid amounts. For all you know, several of the GC's may carry your number in their bids, but unless they win the job, you'll never hear about it.

greg24k · 02-24-2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kc brick layer

I have a waterproofing company. We do caulking and below grade waterproofing. I been starting to bid some projects but i havnt been getting any response back from the GC'S. I even call them to see how my bid compared but they act like there not interested in talking with me. My question is...Do large GC companys generally use one sub they like for smaller things on a project, like caulking? Do they not even look at other bids? $5,000 - $15,000 is my average bids to give an example on the size of jobs im bidding on. Wouldnt a GC want a competitive bid on sections of work this size?

I am a GC and I usually use the same contractors for all my jobs even if they are a few hundred dollars more then others. We have a long relationship with some for over 20 years, and they know what I expect from them and I know the job done right. If it is a big job and I need to bring more trades, the only reason I will not call back if the price is outrages or the specifics do not make any sense (Not saying you not receiving a call backs for the same reasons, just generally speaking). If he is in the ballpark and everything checks out, I will give him a shot.

Good luck

kc brick layer · 02-27-2009, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Kovacs

And the sealed bids being read aloud won't help you to know if you were the low caulking bidder- they only read the GC's total bid amounts. For all you know, several of the GC's may carry your number in their bids, but unless they win the job, you'll never hear about it.

The bid is to the GC that is going to be the projct manager of the project and each subcontarctor bid package will be read out loud. Low bid will be evaluated to make sure they are qualified. so i will atleast see where im at on my bid.

I understand that its all about who you know. I am fortunate to have enough GC's using me to keep me and 2 guys busy. I could live very comfortably with the work i have now but i want to be a buisness. I feel like i just work for myself.

As a superintendent of my former co. i never liked having clients want to take me to lunch and talk about new products and so forth. (maby it was just me)

As a GC do you guys want unkown subs taking you to lunch to talk about work? If i called you up and said "Hi im ______ could i take you to lunch and discuss what i can do for you?

Just trying to find they right way to meet the GC's. I know i have a good impression, every time im refered to a new gc they use me.

tomstruble · 02-27-2009, 10:10 PM

as a sometime sub i would advise you dont lower your number''to get your foot in the door''if he's not going to pay it now he's not going to pay it later he will just find a cheeper sub jmo

**joasis** · 02-28-2009, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kc brick layer

As a GC do you guys want unkown subs taking you to lunch to talk about work? If i called you up and said "Hi im ______ could i take you to lunch and discuss what i can do for you?

I can't answer for other contractors, but I can assure you that if i don't know you, we won't be going to lunch together. I have always regarded the "lunch/dinner thing" as a little shady.....when promoting something. If you have a relationship already in place, and your timing is right, there is nothing wrong with asking if a GC has lunch plans, and do not mention you are buying....IMO, it makes you sound like a cheap salesman.

Now, after you know a guy, then you can make the standard joke of who is buying coffee or lunch, whatever. My son is good at this, and he networks on the golf course. As a scratch golfer, he also adds strokes if he thinks it helps to let his prospective customer win a few holes.

Jayrek · 02-28-2009, 04:57 PM

I really dont bid out anymore, if the customer wants me to I just explain why I use the plumbers, hvac, and elec., that I do. Good work, done quick, done right. Are their prices the best? Depends on the job, but I am willing to pay 5% to 10% over for quality service. Every once in a while a customer wants to be involved, (usually remodels and additions) and they say they have found a great price on concrete work. My response is, if my guy does not do the pour, I am not framing it. I have followed too many hacks that have thrown my schedule and budget off.

I use my people for a reason, I can trust them. Period.

rebelrobb2 · 03-19-2009, 11:44 AM

You need to go to the GCs office talk to etimaters and get on their bidders list. It takes time but with all good relationships nothing happens over night.

Pizzenterprises · 04-13-2009, 04:53 PM

If it aint broke, dont fix it. If a GC is happy w a sub they usually won't change, unless they get too busy (not a problem right now) or prices change. They're probably bid shopping you and using your numbers to get a general idea and even though it's illegal, probably showing your bids to their regular subs to low ball them. Find a new GC, quit doing their work for them!

ebeye · 06-05-2009, 06:58 PM

My take on your issue is that you should bid to more GCs and keep studying the bids you didn't get, it is true that your package is smaller than others but you're still needed by the GCs as they can't build without waterproofing and insulation. Willie T mentioned networking and persistence and that's absolutely right, along with verifying the requirements of the bids (are you union? is that a requirement on the bids you're sending? are you listing the specs you are bidding? are you bidding the approved manufacturers in the specs? are you listing each item and the areas where you will do your work? is your proposal clear, professional and legible? do you always answer the phone when GCs call?....You have to ask yourself all these questions.
Because the GCs look at all the bids, always, regardless of buddy relationships or not.

What will stand you apart is the quality of your work, your efficiency and the quality of your proposal...you want to make sure that your scope is complete and your price competitive.
Don't underbid, but put in a small profit so you can survive.

Search for more bidding opportunities: bid outside of your normal area and bid more jobs (more bids means more wins, it is a higher probability).

Good luck and keep persevering