Post & Beam Questions

rwwood

We are in the process of planning a new church building and have started to work with an area builder who has a good reputation. My experience is limited to residential construction, mostly on the remodelling end, so this big a project is sort of out of my realm of experience. Nevertheless, looking over the initial plans has raised some questions about the way this building is proposed to be built.

First, the builder is planning on doing a post and beam building, 100'x60', 16' sidewalls with scissor trusses over the main chapel area. The thing that troubles me is that there isn't a full perimeter foundation around the building and NO foundation under the slab floor. He's planning to sink 4' holes for a 30" pad that pressure treated posts set on, the pressure treated being 3 2x6's laminated together. From the print, I'm assuming that the posts for the building are set on top of or attached to these.

The posts are set roughly every 10' with horizontal 2x4 girts inside and out on which steel siding and sheetrock are hung. It would appear there may be some additional vertical framing between the posts, but no closer than about 36". Even with firecode sheetrock, I would think accoustics would be terrible because of the walls vibrating.

Finally, the builder is showing only a 4" slab (again with no perimeter support down to solid soil), and we've specified that the slab is to contain radiant heat piping. 4" hardly seems sufficient if there is going to be any reinforcing wire in the middle of the slab. Also, the print says "saw cut" expansion joints. How the heck do you do that without cutting through the radiant floor tubing?

I know it's hard without the actual print, but does anyone with post & beam experience think that I'm being overly concerned about what I've outlined?

Thanks!
RW Wood, aka, rww

Bob Kovacs

Sounds like a "pole barn"- not a real "post and beam" structure, and it also sounds like it's being built to last about the same length of time, and with the same level of quality as a pole barn- not a church.

I'd think about looking at a different building system if you want a quality building that's going to last. If you're on a tight budget and just looking for a warm shelter from the rain, though, that oughta work.

Whether the foundation system he's drawing is acceptable or not depends on where you're located- that system might fly in a warm area in the south, but it's no good in areas that see frost.

Home Serve

It does sound like you really have some serious issues here. If I were you I would contact someone in authority in the church and get permission to take the plans to an architect or similar. Or do so on your own right away before things go any further.
Dave

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rwwood

How would you define the difference between a pole barn and real post and beam construction?

Can you give a rough idea of the difference in price between stick built, post and beam, and what I've outlined?

Upstate New York is not exactly Atlanta, Georgia, but I don't think we ever get more than a foot of frost in the ground.

Thanks for your reply.
RW Wood

rwwood

Well, hind sight is always 20/20, but that's where we're realizing we should have started, but were trying to save the money we would spend hiring one.

Thanks.
RWW

Kingfisher

The two of you are designing this? I have to agree with the other posts sounding likea cheap building to me. Is this what the church wants? Also scissor trusses on that wall sounds like a major problem.

Bob Kovacs

See my replies in bold

rwwood

I was looking more for a ballpark idea like, stick built is 50% more expensive than post and beam and twice as much as your proposed building in the area where I live.

Thanks for taking the time to answer.
RW Wood

Bob Kovacs

Well, I have no idea what you're paying for the proposed construction system, but generally pole barns are down and dirty, and will cost less than a stick framed structure. A quality post and beam frame with mortise and tenon joinery can easily run you 2-3 times the cost of a conventional frame, and you'll also pay a premium for electrical and plumbing to work around the exposed frame.

rwwood

The original building, which is probably not going to be what we end up with, was 6000 square feet (100x60) with 16' sidewalls and 60' scissor trusses that have 4.5/12 pitch on the outside and 3/12 pitch on the inside. Outside was to be steel siding and roofing, obviously a pole barn look. Inside was fire code sheet rock. To be included were men's and women's bathrooms, carpet, radiant heat under the whole slab, AC and electric to code. There was also some site work that included a detention pond, sewer lines to the street, gravel parking for 50 cars, and a few other odds and ends. Total cost: $325k.

I started scrutinizing the plans because we decided that we weren't going to be happy with the building, and that it wasn't going to be adequate space. We all (those with the happy task of coming up with a building plan) are beginning to see that we did the whole process backwards, ie. figuring what we thought we could afford and then trying to come up with a building for that number. When you have limited funds and are trying to exercise good stewardship of them since they were given by people who trust you to use them wisely, it's hard to justify shelling out $$$ for architect/building consultant fees.

I was a home improvement contractor prior to living outside the US for 12 years and am just starting to get my head around getting back into it, so didn't see some of the problems early on. If I felt that I had a better handle on current prices, etc, in this area, I would probably take on the project myself and sub out the work. Since I don't, I'm doing what I can to get up to speed so we end up with a building that the church members will appreciate and that will last us for a good while to come.

Thanks for your help toward that end.
RW Wood

Pearce Services

The building concept is called "Post Frame" The concrete footing that the posts sit on are below the frost line, the post is inserted into the hole on top of the footing, then the hole is backfilled. Typically these buildings are considered 50 year buildings.

The concept of Post Frame is gaining popularity, and should not be dismissed if price is a major factor. If you want more info about this type of building, check this out.... http://www.nfba.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3282

rwwood

Thanks for the link. Reading some of what's there has served to alleviate at least part of my concern, although the foundation issue doesn't seem to be addressed. The page on churches (I can't post the link, even trying to disguise it, )

Richard

rwwood

Thanks for the link. Reading some of what's there has served to alleviate at least part of my concern, although the foundation issue doesn't seem to be addressed. The page on churches (I can't post the link, even trying to disguise it) was especially helpful.

Richard

Pavola

I think its worth the money to have a good architect look over your plans, for many reasons. One reason is the scissor truss design - anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the interior pitch can be no more than half the exterior pitch.

Duane1982

where is upstate ny are you? Is it a reputable builder? I am pretty good with knowing pricing around my area.

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