Partition Wall Under Drop Ceiling

 
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Old 02-10-2017, 08:07 PM   #1
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Partition Wall Under Drop Ceiling


I need to put a couple partition walls up in an office space. One of the walls will have a door and two windows. There is a drop ceiling in place at 10'. I haven't secured a wall to a ceiling grid before so I just thought I'd throw this out there to see if I might get a couple tips. I plan on just securing my ceiling track to the T-grid, one self tapping screw on each side of the T.

I guess my main concern is with the door. It seems like I need to secure the wall around the door from above the grid. Someone suggested that I U-bolt a 2x4 down from the metal roof structure and secure up the ceiling with that, although I can't really picture how you would attach to the T grid.

Finally, what are the options for finishing the drywall along the ceiling? Is running some moulding up there the only option to hide the gap of the drywall and ceiling tile?

Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks in advance. I'll attach a couple pics of the office space and the view above the ceiling tiles. (The partition wall with the door will be running perpendicular to the main roof truss in pic.)
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Old 02-10-2017, 08:18 PM   #2
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Re: Partition Wall Under Drop Ceiling


with that fire sprinkler there you better find out if what you are doing is legal.

is there a fire alarm also?

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Old 02-10-2017, 08:52 PM   #3
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Re: Partition Wall Under Drop Ceiling


No fire alarm. What would be the legal problem. I didn't see anything in the architects drawing and notes about anything with the sprinkler. It just says that the drop ceiling is to remain.
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Old 02-10-2017, 09:21 PM   #4
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Re: Partition Wall Under Drop Ceiling


I've seen studs used, screwed to top plate and angled back to a joist where it gets screwed or shot or beam clamped(in a pinch..) I got respect for the metal guys around here, a few snips a few screws and solid as a rock. I was always in way after them.

Ceiling tiles notched around neatly so you can't see.

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Old 02-10-2017, 09:27 PM   #5
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Re: Partition Wall Under Drop Ceiling


Sounds questionable. When I have done that the new walls are built full hight and the ceiling is reconfigured for the new arraignment. The lights, hvac, sprinklers and so forth have to get sorted out according to the new configuration.
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Old 02-10-2017, 09:46 PM   #6
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Re: Partition Wall Under Drop Ceiling


Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankSmith View Post
The lights, hvac, sprinklers and so forth have to get sorted out according to the new configuration.
As well as the switches and receptacles. All the light zones and switching must be taken into account as well.
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Old 02-10-2017, 10:23 PM   #7
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Re: Partition Wall Under Drop Ceiling


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Originally Posted by LooseScrews View Post
No fire alarm. What would be the legal problem. I didn't see anything in the architects drawing and notes about anything with the sprinkler. It just says that the drop ceiling is to remain.
Legal problems....

changing occupancy ratings

you just destroyed the fire sprinkler zone coverage

fire marshall may have a different idea. did he stamp plans?

fire corridor for egress

how did this magnificent architect call out to attach wall?????

as Ron said lighting controls, hvac??????

don't forget architects are never wrong it is some one eldes,s fault....
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Old 02-10-2017, 10:23 PM   #8
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Re: Partition Wall Under Drop Ceiling


Well this is off to a good start.
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Old 02-10-2017, 10:53 PM   #9
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Re: Partition Wall Under Drop Ceiling


Looks like I need to contact this architect to get some clarification.

But just out of curiosity, have any of you seen the top plate screwed or clipped directly to the T bar grid?
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Old 02-10-2017, 11:11 PM   #10
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Re: Partition Wall Under Drop Ceiling


Quote:
Originally Posted by LooseScrews View Post
Looks like I need to contact this architect to get some clarification.

But just out of curiosity, have any of you seen the top plate screwed or clipped directly to the T bar grid?
yes, then kicked off to a structural member above.

T bar has no structural capacity in case of a seismic event.
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Old 02-10-2017, 11:22 PM   #11
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Re: Partition Wall Under Drop Ceiling


Quote:
Originally Posted by LooseScrews View Post
Looks like I need to contact this architect to get some clarification.

But just out of curiosity, have any of you seen the top plate screwed or clipped directly to the T bar grid?
Yes. I've seen it done and was quite surprised at how sturdy it was. Also seen the use J-metal bead at top edge of drywall for a clean finish.
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Old 02-10-2017, 11:45 PM   #12
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Re: Partition Wall Under Drop Ceiling


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Yes. I've seen it done and was quite surprised at how sturdy it was. Also seen the use J-metal bead at top edge of drywall for a clean finish.

Thank you for that tip. That looks good.

Last edited by LooseScrews; 02-11-2017 at 12:08 AM.
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Old 02-11-2017, 02:21 PM   #13
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Re: Partition Wall Under Drop Ceiling


This is done all the time around here. But like griz and others mentioned the biggest thing is the sprinklers right now. Each head is placed to cover a certain area of the building. And heads are spaced appropriately to make sure the whole area is covered. Now if you come in and throw up a wall you might be screwing up the sprinkler coverage. For example, let's say you build a wall one foot away from a sprinkler head. That sprinkler head used to cover a certain radius. Now you blocked off almost half that radius and the area on the other side of that wall is no longer covered. You would need to add another head.

And also as mention you will be changing the whole design of the HVAC system as far as register locations and cold air returns and the system will need to be redone and balanced. Lighting code requirements may change also if you put up walls.

As for your enitial questions yes it can be done. Personally I don't like to fasten to the grid. These places change a lot and when you take a wall down the grid will be ruined. I frame my wall and the use some steel studs to kick it to the deck. This is easy and will be stronger. Then notch the tiles to fit. Tiles are a lot easier and cheaper to replace when you need to change things. For the drywall I use a tear away trim usually. Finish the drywall and paint and you are good.
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Old 02-11-2017, 03:37 PM   #14
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Re: Partition Wall Under Drop Ceiling


Quote:
Originally Posted by griz View Post
yes, then kicked off to a structural member above.

T bar has no structural capacity in case of a seismic event.
Even a slamming door will p!ss off the attachment. It needs to be tied back to something.
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Old 02-11-2017, 05:03 PM   #15
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Re: Partition Wall Under Drop Ceiling


Thank you very much for this, I will be looking into the sprinkler head and HVAC issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by platinumLLC View Post
As for your enitial questions yes it can be done. Personally I don't like to fasten to the grid. These places change a lot and when you take a wall down the grid will be ruined. I frame my wall and the use some steel studs to kick it to the deck. This is easy and will be stronger. Then notch the tiles to fit. Tiles are a lot easier and cheaper to replace when you need to change things. For the drywall I use a tear away trim usually. Finish the drywall and paint and you are good.

So is this a rough idea of how you would frame it?
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Old 02-11-2017, 06:31 PM   #16
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Re: Partition Wall Under Drop Ceiling


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Well this is off to a good start.
Well not really, Griz called it right sraight away for all the reasons fire door, sprinkler, hvac, egress, emg lighting, fire wall/blocking.

Dan i know your post was tongue in cheek .

Some folks who do not do commercial work do not under stand or even know the codes.
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Old 02-11-2017, 07:54 PM   #17
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Re: Partition Wall Under Drop Ceiling


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Thank you very much for this, I will be looking into the sprinkler head and HVAC issue.


So is this a rough idea of how you would frame it?
No not at all like that. I frame a normal wall up to the ceiling. Then use steel studs fastened to the top plate of the wall then run at a 45 up to the deck to give the wall strength. No actual framing above the ceiling besides the kickers.

But like mentioned you really need to look into all the other things first.

Post a picture of your architectural drawings up on here.
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Old 02-12-2017, 04:22 AM   #18
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Re: Partition Wall Under Drop Ceiling


The fire protection system will have been designed based on that room layout, adding a wall will change it so the Architect should have had it checked by the fire system designer.
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Old 02-12-2017, 07:01 AM   #19
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Re: Partition Wall Under Drop Ceiling


We do this. At least 2 jobs per year.

#1 Screw the top plate to the grid. Not my favorite way to do it, but if that's what the owner and the architect want, it's not my place to argue. I don't like the holes in the grid. They are thinking they can change the walls if it get rented to a new tenant. I'm just thinking, there's holes in the grid.

I do like a kicker to the top of the wall, but that is never specd. If I do it, it's on my own. Architect never details that.

#2 I use tearaway bead at the top. There are times they don't even want us to tear it off. They say to leave it. It looks fine and lets face it, it's commercial, nobody even notices.

#3 The sprinkler system will need to be addressed. It is possible all of the heads will hit where they are supposed to hit. Maybe not, but unless it is your job to do the sprinkler system, then it's not your problem.

#4 HVAC. Usually there needs to be some shifting of the ducts. Unless you are the HVAC contractor, this does not affect you.
Don't forget cold air returns. Again, unless you are the HVAC contractor, not your problem.

#5 Lights. They usually need to be shifted as well.

$6 Egress and emergency lighting will need to be checked. But....that is for the architect to figure out. The emergency lighting is also for the architect to figure out. The electrician will just put it in the location the architect specifies.

There are all kinds of arguments that this or that should be done. The reality is they hired an architect and got an inspector to sign off on the changes. It's your job to do what they want.
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Old 02-12-2017, 12:29 PM   #20
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Re: Partition Wall Under Drop Ceiling


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No not at all like that. I frame a normal wall up to the ceiling. Then use steel studs fastened to the top plate of the wall then run at a 45 up to the deck to give the wall strength. No actual framing above the ceiling besides the kickers.

But like mentioned you really need to look into all the other things first.

Post a picture of your architectural drawings up on here.


Hard to see in this pic, but basically this.


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