dlcj

i have about 2000 sq feet of drive way and realy want to have it done with stamped concrete but i know it will be way out of my price rang. Ive read about stamped asphalt and the process looks much easer and nice looking too. Can anybody give me any more info and a approx cost on both the concrete and asphalt? Any pros and cons of each? I do not want plain concret, will stick with gravel first! I uderstand that prices differ all over the country but everything i read about on any forum is usually cheaper hear. I will do all the prep work myself. Just need a idea on the paving cost.

joasis

Concrete is cheaper then asphalt in my area, due to the price of oil. I guess I need to get up to speed a little here, but traditional asphalt would be hard to stamp, as well as a little hot on the stamps...must be something totally new.

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dlcj

I was told that plain asphalt is cheaper than plain concrete hear but it could have changed by now. I found asphalt stamping while looking around on google. They lay down a steel stamp on the newly laid and still hot pavment then run over it with the roller. After it cools it is died to the desired color. Old asphalt can be reheated in place and stamped the same way. A lot faster and less man labor than stamped concrete.

joasis

And after you described the process, the equipment costs would be way higher, not to mention being limited on what you can or cannot do....concrete stamping is only limited by imagination.

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dlcj

your right, asphalt equipment is bigger and more expensive and would not be worth the cost just to do driveways. dont forget that the manual labor for stamping concrete would be higher, also form material, rewire, rebar, grade stakes, none of witch is needed for asphalt. dont get me wrong, i would rather have concrete in a natural stone patern. I was thinking about the cost for the customer. Any established paving contracter thinking of doing custom driveways should already have there equipment payed for and just do drives in between big jobs. I dont no, just my observation.

Tmrrptr

I don't feel stamped asphalt will hold up well. Edges in a pattern will be subject to more wear and tear and it will degrade.

Everyone KNOWS concrete driveways are better!
r

joasis

Not to mention, decorative concrete has hundreds of color combinations, asphalt has one color. It isn't as hard as it seems...we do it, and it isn't that hard of a project. My new home will have ashler slate stamped floors in the living areas, and it will be me and my wife......probably do 450 sq/ft at a time. Instead of doing the complete driveway, do a few hundred sq/ft at a time while you learn the process.

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Tom R

That was my thought, too . . .

Vinny

I had to sit back for a minute after reading all the conjecture put on this thread by a bunch of non paving, hammer swinging, ditch digging doodoo,s.

OK, did I sound like the biggest a$$ hole on earth? I was just breaking them off.

But seriously, let me, as a self proclaimed paving expert, try to straighten out things here.

First, stamped aspahlt, at least out here in Connecticut, is cheaper in every way and superior in every way to any form of concrete in a large driveway or comercial application.

The method is to generally install the pavement and after the first roller pass, to layout the stamps and re- roll the surface. Then after a curing period you apply the color. The color, and there is quite a selection, is an epoxy based paint that lasts quite a while. You can also stamp a hardened pavement as long as its not too old but, to do that you need an infrared machine to re heat the pavement.

Now, I dont have my own set of stamps but we have subed this part of the work to a friend that does. I have a few jobs out there with this system on them and I can tell you that there is something that the paint does to armor coat the aspahlt. I,m telling you some of these jobs are over 7 years old and look as good today as the day we put them in. No shrinkage cracks, tire scuffs, scratches from snow plows, NOTHING.

As for cost, when I pave a driveway we get $2.00 to 2.50 per sq ft depending on area to do installation only. Any prep or removal and gradeing is more. Street Print is about $4 or 5 per sq ft to stamp and color. Then there is a maintnence thing where you would probably need to repaint once every 7 to 9 years(creating a high margin maintnence buisness) at about $1.00 per sq ft.

While I wont knock concrete for other parts of the country, out here it just wont last. The cost to do it so good to where it may not crack is so high no one can or would buy it. In new england the soil conditions are so varied that aspahlt is just a smarter choice, and cheaper in the long run.

I do like the stamped concrete systems out there but they seem to be better on small specialty applications than an entire driveway or parking area. Then there is the whole salt thing in the winter that can and will damage it. Aspahlt, even the stamed and colored system is impervious to salt.

As a buisness, we are a premier driveway specialist paving company that provide the masonry, and custom drainage solutions to facilitate the paving. We dont do allot of big work and we dont use driveways as filler to hope for a big job. But there are areas of the contry and even here that contractors do the oposite. For me, we are wired for residential work and anything when priced and sold correctly can be a niche.

__________________
Roccies Asphalt Paving
The Right Way Driveway Company
If you say you cant, your a loser. If you say you wont, your a quiter. Which one do you want to be?

joasis

Learn something new everyday. I would not have guessed, but asphalt here is running $3 and up, and since we can and do concrete work, I keep on laying mud.

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Tmrrptr

Great presentation Vinny.

I'm a non-paving MoFo.
(Actually I used to do freeways in both asphalt or concrete.)

Every asphalt project I've ever seen has degraded much faster than concrete. And I've seen many cracks in asphalt.

I can take you to airstrips poured in WWII that are intact.

NOBODY would build a dam of asphalt, would they?

Concrete probably 4-5 times more expensive.
Maybe I'll try asphalt for my next foundation!
r

Vinny

$3.00 just to install? I'm relocating. Maybe I can commute.

No really, if thats just to install, thats nice. I am at 2 to 2.50 on almost any sq ft size in the 3000 to 15000 sq ft range. For 3 per sq ft it would be a fairly small job like 1000 sq ft

__________________
Roccies Asphalt Paving
The Right Way Driveway Company
If you say you cant, your a loser. If you say you wont, your a quiter. Which one do you want to be?

Vinny

You liked that presentation? Maybe i'll take it on the road. Forgive the pun.

I will agree a concrete surface will be inplace alot longer than asphalt, on highways or driveways(see I know how to rhyme also) But usualy its in bad shape the better part of its later life and because the cost of reconstruction, even taking conrete out and replacing it in asphalt is high.

As for the runways, yea I have seen the same, but I believe most all new construction on runways today is done in asphalt and I would say its because of initial construction costs and the way concrete decays with the use of salt.

You may not be able to use it as a foundation but you cant do viable waterproofing with out aspahlt and it covers a poop load of roofs in the world. And yes, it is used in dam construction mostly as levee type systems full depth from the virgin elevation on up, not like a hoover dam.

Maybe the left coast doesnt know how to pave and thats why it doesnt hold up out there. Maybe the greenies have been cutting the amount of asphalt in the mix. Should I come out to do a couple of teaching classes?

Wow, I do have a wise a$$ attitude tonight

__________________
Roccies Asphalt Paving
The Right Way Driveway Company
If you say you cant, your a loser. If you say you wont, your a quiter. Which one do you want to be?

dlcj

thanks vinny. i guess im the hammer swinging mofo who started this trend. If money was no object i would go with concrete but you just made asphalt sound a lot better for my drive. Now is there anybody in alabama that can give me a quote?

Vinny

I dont know if I am allowed to do this but I am going to recomend you try the National Pavement Contractors Association site at www.pavementpro.com You can d a search there for a member in your area or some one on that forum or a NPCA staff person may be able to help.

BTW, I am a director in the association.

BBTW, I hope I didnt insult any one with the MoFo comment

__________________
Roccies Asphalt Paving
The Right Way Driveway Company
If you say you cant, your a loser. If you say you wont, your a quiter. Which one do you want to be?

Tmrrptr

Vinny,

You're good.
r

concretemasonry

Sounds like stamped asphalt ranks right up there with the "All Weather Wood Basement" that was the greatest thing in construction in 1968.

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Dick

Engineer, designer and consultant recently active domestically and internationally on construction and design in about 35 countries.

Vinny

Dick, dont get me wrong, there is a time and place for both products and there are situations, even out here where concrete may be the better choice for a given application. But I can only speak from 23 years of doing the work in my area and taken on a whole, aspahlt seems to be the better choice for most exterior flat work.

In the end though, they both crack or fail at one time or another. If not from poor initial construction, then from misuse, or from a lack of care, or sweet mother nature and that, thank God, is what has made our buiness.

Hey Dick, i always wanted to ask you, what kind of fish is that your holding in your avatar. Awsome catch. My son would love to get one of those.

__________________
Roccies Asphalt Paving
The Right Way Driveway Company
If you say you cant, your a loser. If you say you wont, your a quiter. Which one do you want to be?

Tom R

Vinny, - - as a hammer-swingin' mo-fo, - - I can well appreciate your self-helping biased opinions, - - but personally, - - I would never take asphalt over concrete. Concrete is cheaper in the long run, - - and asphalt application seems to be much more prone to 'cheating' on the methods, - - as is indicated by the many failures I consistently see all around me.

Stamped asphalt??

Puh-leeze . . .

concretemasonry

I recognize that there are gepgraphic and differences for driveways. I saw that when I lived in CT and then later in Tidewater, VA, where the opposite traditions exist.

Here, in Minnesota, the rapidly increasing number of developments by national builders are concrete. This is driven by the need to sell homes and the local perception of quality of concrete - they do not get into the confusion of colors and patterns.

In the upper level custom homes, most are plain concrete, pavers or a paver/concrete combination(plain concrete first and the architectural pavers immediately following). Most of the concrete suppliers will not sell any concrete for pavers unless it is 4000-5000 psi air entrained and the minor material cost has not slowed the use. The shift toward better concrete a few years ago stopped the bad name inherited from the cheap products used earlier.

Other custom homes have a mix. Since builders/home owners run out of money near completion, most are plain asphalt if surfacing is required for occupancy. If not, gravel is used for a year or two the compact/settle the base and then concrete or pavers (many DIY pavers).

Older driveway replacement is commonly asphalt. Pavers are popular as a DIY "curb approach status elevator" since you already have a good base for a flexible pavement.

For your son - The fish is a Lake Trout (42", 38 pounds 2 days after catching and probably 42 live in the water). Caught on 6# line (30 minutes hooked) while fishing for 5-7 pounders for lunch. - Sanford Lake, about 20-30 miles north of the Minnesota/Canada border in a hard to access area. Our group got mine, a 26# lake trout and a 48+ inch 28 pound northern in 30 minutes. I've a lot of good fish, but this was certainly the comparative best for its species.

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Dick

Engineer, designer and consultant recently active domestically and internationally on construction and design in about 35 countries.