ICF Concrete?

 
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Old 07-18-2010, 05:33 PM   #1
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ICF Concrete?


Is concrete for a below-grade ICF foundation any different than the concrete I'd get from a regular poured wall?

I have a quote from an ICF provider here in Ottawa which includes concrete. Thought it was a little peculiar, and probably just a way to increase margins - but I'm guessing I could order the appropriate mix from local cement co myself...

Thanks in advance! Mike
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Old 07-18-2010, 05:36 PM   #2
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Re: ICF Concrete?


Concrete mixes are designed for a specific application, and ICF's typically have a design mix that lends to easy consolidation, and strength, plus small aggregate size. It will have a plasticizer as well....so I guess your concrete guy will give you an answer about what they can sell you and the design mix.

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Old 07-18-2010, 05:49 PM   #3
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Re: ICF Concrete?


Because it is ICF, there could be some pumping and truck time charges to bring the concrete up reasonably equally all around in case the guy setting the forms was sloppy when it comes to bracing and stability.
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Old 07-18-2010, 07:14 PM   #4
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Re: ICF Concrete?


Thanks. The guy doing the forming/bracing would be me. I was hoping to do it without a pump as I was planning to be able to have a truck get to about all sides. But with a 6" wall that might prove challenging. I may insist on the pump truck.
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Old 07-18-2010, 11:32 PM   #5
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Re: ICF Concrete?


I have only seen 3 foot 'lifts' allowed on ICF pours.
Your 6 foot walls will needs 2 rounds of pouring or pumping.
Vibration required.
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Old 07-19-2010, 12:31 AM   #6
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Re: ICF Concrete?


Mixers will generally not get very close to an excavation anymore. Pumps are too easy to come by and that is what they do best.

For what they charge, they are a great value, they save a lot of time and effort in placing the concrete where it needs to be.
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Old 07-20-2010, 07:45 PM   #7
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Re: ICF Concrete?


Thanks folks.

The solution is that they aren't going with any foundation period and building a slab-on-grade garage (single storey) which is in line with building codes up here.

I'm disappointed as I was keen to do ICF not having done it before. I was surprised to see that cost-wise it seems to be pretty comparable to old-fashioned formed concrete walls... Or at least the way I was pricing it, anyway!
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Old 11-11-2010, 12:06 PM   #8
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Re: ICF Concrete?


we were pouring a 12 ft high icf wall (first high wall pour with icf) and we were doing 4 ft lifts for the first half. the second half we did 6ft lifts. no problems either way. i asked the pump operator how high he has poured icf, he said 12 ft. so then i asked if we could have done it, and he said that the bracing we had was done very well and he had no doubt we could have done it in one lift.
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Old 11-11-2010, 05:56 PM   #9
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Re: ICF Concrete?


I wish i had some pictures but two years ago we worked on a 5 plex theater project. everywall was ICF. Out here no one does ICF's and i think they went through 3 subs on that job. nothing like a blowout 6' off teh deck when your pouring 28' tall walls.

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Old 11-18-2010, 07:03 PM   #10
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Re: ICF Concrete?


ICF is a good option for some industries, but you need to be familiar with the intricacies of the properties of this type of concrete.
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Old 04-13-2011, 08:38 PM   #11
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Re: ICF Concrete?


Well, this being my first post on this site, I hope that I can answer some of your ICF questions.
We are a Canadian Manufacturer & Supplier of a Vertical ICF system.

We personally have poured walls as high as 17ft in a monopour (they have gone significantly higher in the USA), as well as suspended slabs with 13ft high walls in one shot. Several lifts mind you (generally 4-6ft).

We have also done 3 1/2" concrete cavity (nom. 4") in 10ft heights without problems. For these thinner walls, we do recommend a plasticizer, especially when it's hot. For all other walls, a 4 1/2" - 5" is perfect. No need to go with a "soupy mix". We do prefer to use a pumper truck, mainly for accessibility and ease of doing the job. It's generally not a requirement.

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Old 04-13-2011, 08:48 PM   #12
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Re: ICF Concrete?


@mike you can get the concrete yourself, provided you use a plasticizer, however if you are at all nervous about setting the mix yourself it would be a good idea to get your product from the concrete contractor.
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:07 PM   #13
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Re: ICF Concrete?


So when you pour each lift, how long in between do you wait? Thanks...
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:51 PM   #14
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Re: ICF Concrete?


Plan on trying it yourself?

The reason for multiple "lifts" is to allow for consolidation, and relieve the stress on the forms. The concrete will take an initial "set" in the time it takes to go around 200 feet of walls. Reduces pressure on the forms, lessons the chance of blowouts, and better control of plumbing the wall if there is a problem.
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:15 PM   #15
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Re: ICF Concrete?


A typical form is rated for, or tested for 800 psi +/-, a 6" ICF form with 4' of concrete is about 600 psi on the bottom, once you surpass that pressure increases immensely.

Check you local safety code as well, ACI 318 used to talk about 4' lifts per hour and when I was in California, CalOSHA mandated a maximum of 12' (3 lifts) in one day!
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:17 PM   #16
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Re: ICF Concrete?


Im not sure if it has been said above. but ICF concrete is really no different (as far as i know) then regular concrete. The main difference may be the slump, to ease consolidation.
IF anything the ICF concrete may be stronger because ICF is an "engineered" product.
I think thats what Chris ^ told me
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:39 PM   #17
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Re: ICF Concrete?


I use regular mix design concrete, most ICF mixes contain plasticizers and pea gravel to help them flow. Once you know what you are doing, save money and use regular mix. The main key is consolidation
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:30 PM   #18
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Re: ICF Concrete?


Thanks! I'm building myself a house. I've poured walls with forms, but not ICF. Looking around at different brands to see what I like.

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