Concrete Help

 
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Old 07-26-2017, 01:07 AM   #1
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Concrete Help


Customer has a patio 50 feet long, 17 feet of it was a separate pour and was not connected to main foundation but is connected to the patio next to it. Long story short, we had to lift the house 3 inches on the side where the patio wasn't connected to the foundation so we put our piers in under the house and we put 10 more piers around the perimeter of that section. Lifted the house and the whole patio lifted with it except for the 17 foot section next to the house.

There was already a 3 inch drop stepping out onto the patio which is fine but now theres a 6 or 7 inch drop on that section and the water rolls backwards towards the house.

We put a total of 31 piers on the back side of their house and the front was already piered

There was no existing cracks in either patio slab aside from the typical hairline fracture stuff and both patio slabs have been there for at least ten years without any shifting.

The house was not level when the 2nd slab was poured so that's part of the problem.

We have enough room to pour another 3 inches on top of the existing concrete and that would really give us about 6 inches thick on the one corner that was down and we can rebar it into the foundation of the house and pour over about 4 inches and go 10 inches down on all the edges if we need to go that far. The outer perimeter of the both patio slabs are a foot wide and 10 inches thick.

if we rebar everything to code and our thinnest part of the cap totals 3 inches thick, do a monolithic pour over the entire patio and then cut some joints as needed... does anyone forsee any issues with pouring over the existing concrete?

I got a bid from one of a collegues subs and he is insisting they take the slab that didn't lift out and pour a new one.

Let me back up. This patio had a 50 x 15 foot patio cover sitting on top of it previously. connected to the house with a ledger and the 6 posts were get this... JUST SITTING ON THE EDGE OF THE PATIO and encased in brick 3 feet high.

my point is, it had a ton of weight on it for a long time and it never shifted or cracked. so why would he want to tear out one side but not the other.?? he is also suggesting he put 7 24x24x36 inch footers in this time for the posts.

he says its code, but if its code. the footings would already be there from the previous pergola. and I don't think its code unless the roof is going to be supporting another story right?

any thoughts? is this a mistake? are the footings unnecessary is the tearout unnecessary? did anyone even understand what I just vomited up?
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Old 07-26-2017, 06:14 AM   #2
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Re: Concrete Help


I can give an opinion, on some of it. Just want to make sure I got this in my head.

You raised the house. A section of the existing patio is pinned to the house and it also raised up, when you raised the house.
If this is correct, you now have a void under the concrete. If you raised it 6". There is a 6" void, with no fill. The slab may be fine now, but it will crack and drop back down. Usually about 3' away from the house or 3' away from the pinned area.

The other section wasn't pinned to the house so the concrete just sat in place.

I've often thought about pouring over old concrete. I haven't done it, but there are times I could see it working. About 20 years ago, the Ready Mix Association was pushing "white topping." Pouring new concrete over asphalt. Now, asphalt is another beast, but they were pushing pouring over a very hard surface that already had cracks.

Cracks / control joints would be the main thing. When you look at the concrete now, no matter how much rebar you put in, you will need a control joint right on top of any existing cracks and joints.
Personally I wouldn't do it. I realize it's cheaper and easier than tear out, but I just don't think it's the right way to do it.

Regarding your footings for the porch posts, I don't think I can answer that. Different part of the country and your freeze thaw will be different. The way it was, may meet code there. Here, it wouldn't.
The reason. The house foundation (in this case piers) is below frost. When the ground freezes, it raises up around the house. The house stays in place. Since the posts aren't below frost, when the ground freezes, the posts raise up and then drop back down in the spring. You basically have a roof that moves up and down every winter, attached to a roof that doesn't move.

I would pour the piers correctly.

Of course, since you are in Dallas, you don't have the freeze thaw problems we have. I don't know the code or even what your winters are like. This is the reason I can't answer that.
I always assume your winters are sunny and 70. Our winters are cold and crappy.

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Old 07-27-2017, 02:27 AM   #3
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Re: Concrete Help


yes winter is like something foreign to us. we might have a night that gets to 40 degrees but it will be 99 the next day. It is hot as he&& here. and yes you got it right sort of. let me find the drawings. ill be right back. this is just a pic of the back of the house... the 2 gables that stick out were covered patios and the blank space was 2 different pergolas. it was a diy job I'm pretty sure.
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Old 07-27-2017, 05:26 AM   #4
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Re: Concrete Help


this is it. green dots are where we put the piers, the left of the crosshair is the section that wasn't set to the foundation of the house. the arrows indicate the direction the patio slopes. the top of the picture is the side that is against the house.

where it says 6 inches, 3 inches... that is how far down it is from the top of the foundation line on the house. The patio was poured when the house was not level btw.

so question.. is 3 inches thick enough to pour over and it not crack if I cut joints where the cross hair is an every 10 feet or so?

and we only lifted the house 2.75 inches on the left and 2 inches on the right so is that much of a void still a problem?

cant I throw some sand all over it and pour the concrete on top of that?
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Old 07-27-2017, 09:25 AM   #5
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Re: Concrete Help


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Originally Posted by madrina View Post

and we only lifted the house 2.75 inches on the left and 2 inches on the right so is that much of a void still a problem?

Absolutely. That concrete slab has no strength if there is a void under it. You could have cut it loose before jacking the house, and then just had to deal with the height difference. You still may be able to do that, but there's a good chance it will crack before you finish the cut. Slabs down there are usually either demo'd and redone or mudjacked, from what I saw.
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Old 07-27-2017, 12:39 PM   #6
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Re: Concrete Help


Ok thanks im meeting the foundation guy over there today to discuss the potential problems of the void. I think im going to just save myself the drama and tear the whole damn thing out.
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Old 07-27-2017, 10:57 PM   #7
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Re: Concrete Help


can you raise the slab with mudjacking? it will fill the voids while you're at it.

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Old 07-28-2017, 06:15 AM   #8
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Re: Concrete Help


I was also thinking about the mud jacking. In most of the midwest there are several companies that do it.

Slabjackers is the name I hear most. All of them are the same as above.
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Old 07-28-2017, 06:26 AM   #9
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Re: Concrete Help


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Originally Posted by builditguy View Post
I was also thinking about the mud jacking. In most of the midwest there are several companies that do it.

Slabjackers is the name I hear most. All of them are the same as above.
Slab movement is so common where M is, there are tons of mud jacking companies, and I know she's familiar with them.
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:03 PM   #10
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Re: Concrete Help


Quote:
Originally Posted by madrina View Post
Ok thanks im meeting the foundation guy over there today to discuss the potential problems of the void. I think im going to just save myself the drama and tear the whole damn thing out.


I would tear it out and replace


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Old 01-05-2018, 11:29 AM   #11
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Re: Concrete Help


Follow up for anyone who cares:

Tore it out and started over. It was a freckin pain in the butt. Come to find out the slab was 8 inches thick throughout and 12-15 on the edge. Im glad we did it tho. Makes me rest easy. Chose the wrong concrete sub tho. Guy was a hack.
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Old 01-05-2018, 12:05 PM   #12
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Re: Concrete Help


Why didn't you put any sub-base down over all that clay?



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Old 01-05-2018, 05:30 PM   #13
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Re: Concrete Help


I hate to ask, but given the conditions of this job, are you qualified to do this scope of work? Texas clay can be a b!tch and you jacked an entire house up?

Pouring 3 inches over existing concrete?

A code guy said you were good to drill the foundation and pin reinforcement bars?

I must be missing something here.
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Old 01-05-2018, 07:51 PM   #14
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Re: Concrete Help


I would have spec'd a modified base or 3/4" clean and made sure it was compacted. With the rebar grid in place, was that fill even compacted
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Old 01-05-2018, 10:37 PM   #15
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Re: Concrete Help


Quote:
Originally Posted by madrina View Post
Follow up for anyone who cares:

Tore it out and started over. It was a freckin pain in the butt. Come to find out the slab was 8 inches thick throughout and 12-15 on the edge. Im glad we did it tho. Makes me rest easy. Chose the wrong concrete sub tho. Guy was a hack.


What happened with the Concrete sub ?

Fireplace looks nice!


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Old 01-09-2018, 04:57 AM   #16
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Re: Concrete Help


Well first off lets clear some things up..
I DIDNT Pour this sorry azz patio, I just stood around yelling at this dude for being in my way for 6 days and doing everything wrong. Pouring it wasnt my rodeo, but i did feel some sort of responsibility to TRY and make this guy do right but it was pointless. I cant even to begin to rehash that chit show.

However, we did pull a 8 inch thick slab off of the same spot so there was subbase and compaction , when the concrete guy kept saying he was gonna do things and he didnt, i did it for him when he wasnt around. I met this excavation dude that was digging an enormous hole down the street getting ready for some commercial building or something... (i needed some dirt to pack around the retaining wall so i just walked up and introduced myself)
I asked him what he was doing with all that and he said "why u want some?"
And i said "yep." Bao chicka wow wow...you know the rest...

Totally kidding. He was a total prude. He did fill my.... he gave me some dirt...

GAH! I should write construction p0r.n. You already know Blacktop and gutter guy would be the first ones in line at the store for that! Id be rich! Ok seriously though..

I got dirtboy to lay down some of his best stuff. He even offered to get it in there real tight for me, but i didnt think the neighbors would appreciate him driving his ditch digger through the neighborhood and pounding that down for me.

Anyways.. what was the question?






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Quote:
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Why didn't you put any sub-base down over all that clay?


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Old 01-09-2018, 05:27 AM   #17
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Re: Concrete Help


Qualified to do everything I did?
Well i watched several youtube videos before I did any of it. So i totally knew HOW to do it..

We just jacked the back of the house up.. 31 piers to be exact. Some hack did only the front half for us 2 years earlier. But everyone knows you cant just jack up half a house.

Pouring 3 inches over existing is not that uncommon of a practice, youd be surprised. I sure was.

The drilling holes thing got me too, THAT sir, I cant say im qualified to do, I cant even rap my head around it but apparently its done. And after tearing that slab out, if im ever plagued with the decision again, id swear on a bible that toothpaste will bind them together. And ill do it with a straight face.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joasis View Post
I hate to ask, but given the conditions of this job, are you qualified to do this scope of work? Texas clay can be a b!tch and you jacked an entire house up?

Pouring 3 inches over existing concrete?

A code guy said you were good to drill the foundation and pin reinforcement bars?

I must be missing something here.
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Old 01-09-2018, 05:32 AM   #18
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Re: Concrete Help


I dont know what he was trying to accomplish with the sand.
Im assuming its cheaper than concrete?

The rebar was down but not on chairs yet. At this point i was still asking him if he was going to tie it together.

Quote:
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I would have spec'd a modified base or 3/4" clean and made sure it was compacted. With the rebar grid in place, was that fill even compacted
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Old 01-09-2018, 05:37 AM   #19
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Re: Concrete Help


It was just 2 pictures guys... before after... not a step by step tutorial. Although those are informativive!
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Old 01-09-2018, 05:53 AM   #20
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Re: Concrete Help


Quote:
Originally Posted by madrina View Post
I asked him what he was doing with all that and he said "why u want some?"
And i said "yep." Bao chicka wow wow...you know the rest...

Totally kidding. He was a total prude. He did fill my.... he gave me some dirt...

GAH! I should write construction p0r.n. You already know Blacktop and gutter guy would be the first ones in line at the store for that! Id be rich! Ok seriously though..

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