Concrete Company Delivered Junk Concrete. How Best To Pursue?

dkillianjr

Yup you can get loads all day on Saturday around here too. Heck there is one small company that will bring you a load on a Sunday, all you have to do is call them ahead of time and set it up, and pay a little extra


Dave

slowforthecones

around here in california, you can get it anytime, any day..even on christmas if you had a big job. no extra charge, too many concrete companies here competeing...someone wants your biz.

mrghm

There is batch plants over here that are open 24hrs aday 7 days aweek, all plants are open saturday and a couple are open every sunday and on request when big pours are on.

that being said there is few local / smaller guys left most plants are owned by big listed companies these days.

72chevy4x4

we have an airforce base nearby, not sure if that effects need, but we can get Saturday concrete up to noon with no additional cost

marcomjl

Well I am not a DIYer. I've been in business for myself for 2 years now. I have worked in the field for 8 years. I know my **** and never had a driver or load of crap crete ever. Some pissy drivers but nothing a little yelling straightened out. The job was at my parents home but I'm pursing this as a home owner + contractor vs them. I was busy finishing the concrete and wasn't around for when he dumped the last yard in a pile on the other side of the home. Last I saw of him was taking off after my father signed the slip.

The company has about a dozen trucks. In RI all company's deliver on Saturdays (except union ones) with only adding $60 to the job extra.


Anyways, I spoke with them today again, so far no show giving me excuses that his steel guy was out but he's back today. Told me he'll be here today or tomorrow. I told him ok but if he doesn't show by the end of the day Friday I will call my attorney to further pursue this. He goes what you threatening me now. I said that's not a threat and this isn't only about bad crete, its also about the damage done on the property also. He is ok and said he would show up.

If and when he does show up, if he doesn't budge, I'm gonna warn him I will have the concrete tested for compression strength and petrographic testing (tell when hydration happened, if it was to soon, amount of water in mix, etc). If that doesn't make him budge then it will be down to going to court/lawyers.

slowforthecones

you should have refused his concrete load from the start if he is more than 15 minutes late and his trip sheet is shown to be excessive off time.

B.K

Concrete trucks have only 90mins to deliver there mix, after the water has been added....a truck shows up an hour late (no biggie, i've waited 3 1/2 hours for a concrete truck to show up). When there late, i always ask to see the slip, to see how long the concrete has been in the truck.

My boss will send the truck right back if the concrete has been sitting in the truck for anything over an hour.

After seeing the ginger ale being poured into the mix, that would of been a big red flag...stop this pour and get this **** figured out...

Best of luck getting that all sorted out, hopefully all goes well for ya.

-Bill

__________________
You laugh because I'm different...........
I laugh cause I just farted!

marcomjl

Well if you ever had a concrete delivery at anytime other than first thing in the morning then you know they are always running at least 15 minutes late.

Thanks for the advice, waiting to here back on my quote I sent them.

jomama

Then I must be the luckiest SOB in the trade. One of the dispatchers calls me often just to let me know they will be 5-10 minuted late. The phone call is overkill IMO, but it show's that an experienced dispatcher is important. The only time we ever get a load more than 20-30 minutes late is when using someone other than our 2 main suppliers, which we have been loyal to for the better part of a decade. The concrete cos. are looking out for there regulars first, as they should. It takes a long time to build a good relationship with a ready mix supplier, but once you do, you don't run into these problems. I know for a fact that I would never have recieved a load 1 hour late, much less accepted it if it was batched that much earlier. Especially on a decorative concrete job. Do you carry "Fritz" packs or any kind of retarder on your truck for when you get into these situations? The least you can do is learn from this situation (as we all have, & most continue to daily) so it doesn't happen again. Good luck.

JDavis21835

Cant say that is true around this area. Most of them time, they are right on time. We even have a company that is known for showing up 5-10 minutes early. Last year I did a 2 and a half yard pour in a backyard. Load was supposed to be there at 9am. Help was supposed to be there at 830. Redi Mix truck turned down the street at 8:15

The dispatchers around here are real good about getting the trucks on site, on time. If they are going to be more than 10 minutes late, they usually call. Sounds like you may want to shop concrete companies.

Hoven

The fact is most ready mix suppliers make more money on the resale of old concrete than the original sale. The suppliers in my area have a 5 yard min now. So with the minimum load charge of 160.00 its cheaper to get 5 yards even if you only need 3.5. That extra I send back to the plant is supposed to be either made into a jersey barrier, block or discarded all together after a certain amount of time. They will usually just batch on top of it. This accelerates set time. Even a yard of hot stuff in a 10 yard load will kick the whole load. If your in the sun you better have good help. I always ask the drivers if the load is fresh so I can adjust my slump to meet the conditions. As far as the discolorations, every time you add water after you initially pour you are basically diluting the color. I use fritz pak mini delay set. I keep a box right in the truck for hot loads, and pouring and retarding bigger stamped areas. The Fritz is cheap and you just throw the little bags in the truck and spin at high speed for 3 min and can be used with integral color. Any kind of sugar will first retard the hell out of the area its in and secondly make it brittle. Buy some Fritz, drink the ginger ale.

slowforthecones

i keep fritz packs handy for those little times, but I usually get fresh mix from the plant. I tell the dispatcher no hot stuff otherwise you guys paying the demo bill because I have a video camera rolling and I'm taking core samples as I go.

I usually tip the concrete driver $20 and if I take longer, i tip him $50. I'm known to be one of their favorite delivery customers for that reason. I take care of you if you help me out alittle and don't rush me on dumping the mix on my site.

many names

Around here (Denver) one can normally get mud on sat,not always.One must remember they need to make money as well,so a min sat day usually means maybe yes,maybe no.Just did one this weekend,couldn't start demo till after 5pm and pored 10 am sat (getting to old for that).Sat delivery chg $10 a yard.

As for hot mud?It's a crapshoot,one never knows,been burnt before.Soda (ie sugar) in mud a big no no.Most likely will hit compressive strength,maybe.Your best initial defence is that fact "driver put soda in mix".As slow as things have been hot powder should not be eliminated.When doing concrete I become a pharmisist.I use delvo allot (delay stabalizer) put in at plant (best tiime).I also use high range water reducer if I need it a little wetter.The fritz packs are a godssend,not much can help a cooking load.The big problem is one don't really know if it's cooking till it's layed down.A bad habbit I have is putting my hand on the drum to feel for heat.

As for what can be done outside the courtroom?Discretion is the better part of valor.I don't think there is a one size fits all answer,calmer minds prevail.

fspic

Basically you have a claim for negligence in tort. Prove the specifics with details as you did here and any supporting receipts, order dates and times, and request sign out records for when the truck left their premises (if they have such records), etc. As you are all pros in the business an indication someone blew fulfilling the order in a timely manner is not only of interest to the provider who has to worry about his employees, it is something he can understand from your standpoint. If the evidence is there and customary and reasonable standards aren't met and damages result the concrete outfit has a legal problem it can't overcome. On the other hand they could claim it's all your fault but side evidence such as curb and tree damage tend to show the driver was inexperienced, untrained, and negligent. Failure to train is also an actionable tort.

concretemasonry

When I was in law school my torts professor was served a summons during the break in the classroom. - The school was not a bottom dweller in the law profession since Supreme Court Justices have graduated from there. The torts professor represented a hit and run driver and took the car 15 miles away and had it repaired in a different state under his (the "professors" name). Torts defenses are "the bottom of the barrel" of all defenses and easily defeated.

The time time stamped on the delivery ticket is usually not the notification when the truck left. It is normally generated by the batching system and gives time of the batching. Depending on whether it is central premix (water already added) or water added the time may not be accurate. If the water is added and mixing is done in the truck there is a requirement on the time and number of mixing revolutions before the truck should be released and changed to agitation mode.

If you signed a ticket that you could not read, that is your problem or you could make a note of it since some papers do not weather well or can be torn poorly by the driver or the acceptor. If the acceptor is not the purchaser, there are different situations.

Professional contractors are well versed on accepting and signing for materials and have a good working relationship with suppliers. Semi-professional contractors and professional DIYers do not have the training or experience. Any damage is usually documented for insurance and OSHA problems.

__________________
Dick

Engineer, designer and consultant recently active domestically and internationally on construction and design in about 35 countries.

fspic

This professor turned an auto accident into a likely felony for tampering with evidence and suborning perjury on the part of his client. If there were injuries it would be even worse. I'm not sure I understand your last sentence. A tort claim necessarily involves a tort defense unless the defendant says there is no jurisdiction, standing, wrong court, venue, issue, etc. A properly founded and presented tort claim is dealt with only through proving the plaintiff wrong. If the foundation is there with jurisdiction, evidence, correct pleadings, etc, it is not the sort of thing which is "easily defeated". I've been on both sides of that one.

marcomjl

It's not my problem about the ticket that was signed. Damage wavier that isn't there may hold up but it can't cover damage done after it was signed. I have a lawyer taking care of this and its being resolved.

concretemasonry

I have seen 100's of similar situations.

You ordered the concrete so you are the suppliers customer.

Did you report the truck damage immediately after you saw it? - Or did you call after you saw the resulting placement and finishing of the cured concrete?

Blaming a driver for bad unloading after the product has been finished and cured is a classic claim especially if not done immediately. - Especially in the days of cell phones and radios in trucks. Since you ordered the concrete, you knew the number. A late complaint gets masked by the placement and finishing and confused with the workmanship. Most suppliers will dump or get rid of a load elsewhere to avoid any labor back-charges .

__________________
Dick

Engineer, designer and consultant recently active domestically and internationally on construction and design in about 35 countries.

marcomjl

When did I say I reported it late?

The plant was closed at the end of the pour. I called no one picked up in the office. It was Saturday afternoon. I called first thing monday, the owner gave me excuses that he was short all week but ended up coming that friday. So nothing was late. I didn't blame the driver for the bad load, I blame the company. I blame the driver for putting soda in the truck without my authorization, and damaging the property when he arrived and when he left.

IanS

I got screwed on this 2 years ago. We had 3 trks coming to fill in utility trenches in an old Walmart turned into 6 separate stores.
1st trk 9 yds with a buggy down and screeded 30 minutes.
2nd trk the 2nd pour out of the 1st buggy seemed weird. Screeding was hard. Added 10 gallons of water mixed for 10 minutes and tried the 2nd buggy load. Now the crap is splashing everywhere but almost can't screed it. Then it would not come out the buggy period. Played with 3-4 yds of it and then told them to take ithe rest of the truck back. I had to take the buggy out back and beat the concrete out twice. Its one minute from trk to trench. I have done concrete for over 20 years and never seen this.
They would not re-send the 2nd or 3rd trk until we paid for the 2nd and 3rd trk by check immediately. We were screwed, it was get it done or try to set up another day. Customer paid for the concrete anyway so!! He knew, he saw, we called, he paid.
I still use the same company but not from the area in question. The rest of the work in that location we used another company.

Oh yeah the rest of the concrete 2nd and 3rd trk was fine but we were wore out dehydrated and pissed. If we would have stayed on schedule we would have rolled out by noon. As it was we left the site at 11 that night.