joasis

No kidding. Fiberglass is the greatest rip off ever perpetrated on the construction industry.

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Dr Heat

well I have decided to do my own test. I'm going to build an office space in the barn. I'll wrap it in 1" of p2000 ans see how it works.

Dr Heat

did a bit more research and will not be using P2000. although it does not support flame it melts in an instant and creates intense heat when melting.

silkwood

I'm using it here as we type. I have a picture of the project I'm using it on. I have a lot of this house opened up to the elements, gutted on the inside, corner of the house taken out with the new addition uninsulated. Except for the fact that it has this p2000 we are speaking of wrapped around the whole project. This pic is bout a month old and since then the house is shingled and all the p2000 is installed. Doing this the original furnace in this house is keeping the place above freezing with sub zero temps for the last month. Yes it does get to 20 here and there but it is working fairly well. That the best hands on i can give anyone at this time. I did go to a seminar on it and they had 3 boxes built out of different insulations, fiberglass, sprayfoam, and p2000. they put a heat lamp in each of them. put a thermometer on the outside of each box and on the inside of each. p2000 was the hottest box, keepin the heat in and also the thermometer on the outside was still at room temp showing the least amount of heat lost. If you use the stuff you have to use it 100percent or not at all, basically like enveloping a house.

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silkwood

yes it is a foam product, will melt almost instantly, will not flame up but will melt

BarryZ

The foil does an excellent job of blocking radiant heat flow (notice how all their testing is done with heat lamps), but what about the Conductive and Convective means of heat movement?
Every structure has all three forms of heat loss to some degree, right?
I would be quite concerned about having an open stud cavity where any airspace of an inch or more will form convective cooling loops after the heated room air is conducted right through the drywall.
I agree that some real world controlled testing needs to be done.

marcpack

Hello To All,
First of all I've seen some things on here that upset me do to people either being misinformed or just trying to misguide the good people on here. Now P2000 Has never claimed to have a higher R value than 10.2 per inch.(Which By the Way cant be found in very many ,if at all, other board insulation). This was The ASTM1363 test done and recorded by "The Architectural Testing Institute" in York, Pennsylvania.
Now we also had a Test done by Intertek which is a huge testing firm that has offices in many different countries.The reason they had them do testing for them is to see for themselves how P2000 compares to fibreglass in REAL WORLD CONDITIONS. THey found that 1" of P2000 performed in a wall system a lot better than the ASTM test would give them and in some instances we out performed the fiberglass . This test took into account the affects of Radiant Heat, Covection Heat, and Conductive Heat and the one ASTM Test would not do for P2000. The Old ASTM Test is just a conductive test procedure and does not give a good idea how insulation should work in REAL WORLD CONDITIONS. I would like everyone to go to p2000insulation.com and click on "Building Professionals" for all the REAL testing done on P2000. There is also testimonials on the site from people who have used it in the U.S.A. and Canada. Chances are there is a P2000 rep. or distributor in your area so on the website click on "DEALER MAP" and let someone come and show you the real facts. Thank You and dont just take into account what some people say to put down a product, any product for that matter,call the company and get the real facts. P2000 has been in business for quite awhile and would not want anyone to be misled they simply want to help you save energy and money. Thanks Again!

Framer53

I did go to your web site and did as you said. Up poped a statement that the veracity of the claims could not be confirmed!
Could you explain.
Is this to be used as well as normal insulation or in place of?

marcpack

This can be used as the primary insulation in most cases and as a added insulation if the codes in your area do not allow it by itself. Alot of it depends on your states codes.

build-it-right

I am sorry it creates intense heat, I think you need to re-examine evidently you have never put a match to a styrofoam product,
EPS is what P2000 is made out ( expanded by steam) and water doen not inhance flam nor generates heat, nor does not burn, it melts yes but does not generate more heat like chemicly expanded products. I think your research is not credable, although it is ok that you do not use P2000 it is only for people who want to save money on the energy consumption.
I have my Building and my home done with this stuff and it saves me big dollars. second I do not take a tourch to the out side of my house, have you ever seen the way vinal siding burns, paint or even wood. Go figure. P2000 has a FI of 5 and SD of 25, how many other foam insulations have that. and allowed by ICC to be used in atics and crawl spaces and in non combustable buildings.
Yea your looking at the rong thing. I have seen a home not bun while 15 feet from the another burning house, while the siding melted off.
Go figure tat to.

MartinHolladay

P2000 is ordinary EPS (beadboard) with a shiny facing. It has an R-value of 3.5 to 3.8 per inch. All other claims are exaggerations. Marketing insulation with exaggerated claims is illegal. I tried to supply a link to a Green Building Advisor article on the topic, but the forum software prevents me from posting the link.
Martin Holladay

NH Builder

Folks, just so you know, Martin Holladays has made a name for himself by trying to illegitimize P2000. He is a senior Editor for greenbuildingadvisor.com and as far as I know is not a contractor, and has no bussiness conducting his campaign against what is clearly the best insulation on the market, on this site. P2000 is part of a system and within a wall assembly the entire assembly has an R-value of 10.2 this information is available in the ICC-es2222. Any one who knows how to calculate the R-value of a wall assembly will tell you that you can't get 10.2 with the components used in the test and an insulation product with R-3.8. The only person making false claims is Martin. Please ignore is statements, and request that he be removed from the senior editing staff of greenbuildingadvisor, as he is ruining their reputation.

parts

If it has values of what you claim why is it not the industry standard? Is the "Man" holding you back?

NH Builder

P2000 has only been officially in code for less than two months now. It may very well become the industry standard in the future. Radiant heat accounts for 2/3rds of a homes total heat loss. This means radiant barriers are very important in energy efficiancy. In my opinion, closed cell urethane blown in between studs and wrapping all 6 sides of a home with 3/8 P2000 is the best way to insulate a new home. Period.
As far as the Man bringing it down. R-testing was created by the fiberglass industry. P2000 is to the fiberglass industry as the Electric car is to the oil industry. Unfortunatly for the the fiberglass industry, which holds over 90% of the insulation market, their own code system has shown P2000 to be a far superior product. It is too soon to tell how big of a change this will create in the insulation industry, but in today's world energy efficiancy will paly a major role in stablizing our economy. It is up to marketers of the product to convince people to stop thinking conventionally and understand every aspect of home heat-loss.

goodoleboy

Mr Pack said they never claimed 1'' had a R-value over R-10, I have a sheet from P2000 says R-28 !!

C M Hunter

Hello gentleman:

I have seen some comments here that I think should be addressed, and some logical grounds for use of P2000. I am in no way attacking anybody here, so please do not feel offended!

Vrooman and Martin Hollady-both of you thought that P2000 is just plain old bead board wrapped in tin foil- That is absolutely false. The polystyrene is a proprietary formula which enhances the insulation capability of the product, and makes it MUCH stronger and flexible than bead boards I have seen at the big box places and elsewhere. Take a piece of P2000 and flex around any way you wish and will bounce back asking for more. Try that with the wrapped or unwrapped EPS/Polystyrene products that are used every day at job sites. When I was first shown the product, a distributor abused the crap out of the stuff in a manner like above and with a hammer; that proved to me that their formula is different.

Jaros Bros- You "googled and found it to be a gimmick." Come on, do you actually believe everyone who trash talks a product or person? That is poor thinking my firend, plain and simple. Before you make such harsh judgements, perhaps you should ask for a sample from one who sells it and THEN make an assessment. There is not a product out there from ANY manufacturer that doesn't receive negative feedback, therefore, isolated interent postings are irrelevant until proven.

Barry2- You commented on conduction and convection vs radiation and being just as concerned about the loss/acquisition of heat by those two means as radiation. Many impartial parties, including HVAC industry textbooks will inform you that radiation constituted the MAJOR form of heat transfer. I checked out a site that has a very interesting PDF you should check out - go to 2hsc.com/residential/manufacturers/tvm/tvm_physics.pdf which covers this idea well without going on forever. A quote from it states: " In both winter and summer 65% to 80% of the heat that passes from a warm wall to a colder wall or through a ventilated attic does so by radiation." The doc actually pushes aluminum as a radiant barrier, but tests show, again, by non-partial entities, that mylar reflects radiation in a similar manner. If it was good enough for the astronauts, it must work pretty well, correct?

MarcPack stated that Intertek performed the tests on P2000. Intertek is part of Warnock Hersey, and if you have ever been in a hospital or just about any major public building, look on the hinge side of the door slab and I bet Warnock Hersey validated the fire rating on the door. I really doubt a company such as that would risk their reputation by providing false or misleading claims about a product. P2000 is a small company guys, I really don't think they are paying another corp. off...

One informal test that sold me on the product was when I placed a space heater in front of P2000 and shot the backside of it with an IR thermometer. I did the same with fiberglass and Per..R and Sup..T...R. The fiberglass performed lousy, the other two products performed well but not nearly as well as the P2000. I am not an engineer, so the proof is in the real world performance. Granted, my test is not truly real world where you have sheathing, drwall, house wrap, etc., but it should relate closely to residential or commercial structures.

I am sold on it, and this came about by thinking it through...

nEighter

I meant to comment on this the other day, but this stuff sounds pretty awesome. I am "into" radiant barriers and understand how this product could be a great addition to a house/building. I might use this stuff on my next house. I am trying out different "green" or energy saving technologies and by the sound of it, this would be a great addition to the mix.

betzbros

Try this new product 3Ht from Thermal Building Concepts, it is great and the sales people are down to earth.
The prices are better than P2000.

P2000 use to advertise a 1'' has a R-28, I have the paper yet.

Unbelievable

-I am a Mechanical Engineer ( is an engineering discipline that was developed from the application of principles from physics and materials science. ... it is the branch of engineering that encompasses the generation and application of heat and mechanical power)

- I dont know where to start with this ,, but here we go.

-@ the NASA comment- Space is a vacuum, ie,, no air. Within the atmosphere, there is air. "Most insulators trap air so that significant convective heat loss is eliminated leaving only conduction and radiation transfer. The primary role of such insulation is to make the thermal conductivity of the insulation that of trapped, stagnant air."
Reflective methods work, however not nearly as well as those that trap air ( which is readily available on our planet!)

-@ the P2000 being equivalent to the electric car. If your're going to base your arguments on strict conspiracies, I think there are other message boards for you.

- Read all posts made by concretemasonry

- This is not a math forum, I will not show mathematically why P2000 is not superior. (Although P2000 makes an attempt to on their site by CHANGING the interpretation of the formulas, skewed data much?)



- Most of the comments supporting P2000 on this forum are from those who are in marketing and or sales reps.

-Conclusion- While P2000 is a better insulator than just drywall and brick, other "standard" insulators are far superior to P2000.

@ jaros bros- I'd like to take you up on your dam offer.

zab

Air cannot provide more then about R3.8 an inch. EPS is uses trapped air as an insulator. R10 in 1" don't think so. even in an entire wall system - R1 for the exterior siding, call it 4 for the P2000, 1 for the ply, 1 for the drywall, for a grand total of 7.

The only insulation that i know of that is above 3.8 an inch is poly-iso-cyanurate (tuff-r) which starts at 7.5 and fades to about 6.8.

By the way R value is simply the inverse of U value, which is the heat loss coefficient of a material. windows are rated by U value.

Personally I will continue using dense pack, or wet spray cellulose, sometimes with 1" of high r on the exterior until i find something much much better.