p 2000 insulation - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Dr Heat · 01-13-2009, 05:15 PM

Has anyone used P2000 insulation? The claim is R25 equivalent in a 1" board.

silkwood · 01-23-2009, 01:25 AM

I've been using it on the last 3 remodels and one new home. So far I'm impressed. Right now I'm adding on a 3500 square foot addition to an old 3 story farm house and with that on the outside and no interior insulation the house is staying above freezing in subzero temps. The new house I installed it in seems to be heating extremely effecient. I went to a small seminar on it and if it works the way the test show I think it will pay off.
Just my 2cents.

Framer53 · 01-23-2009, 07:03 PM

R25 in 1", I would not believe it. What is it made of?

**joasis** · 01-23-2009, 07:18 PM

http://www.p2insulation.com/index.cfm?pageid=3

Looks interesting, depending on cost. I doubt it can make a real claim on r25 per inch though.

Jesse Kirchhoff · 01-23-2009, 08:29 PM

I have a price list some were at the office and will post it next week if I can remember to do so.

Vrooman · 01-23-2009, 09:28 PM

Its bead board wrapped in tin-foil basically, I personally think its a scam. If you leave your stud cavities empty, you will have some serious convection loops. Building inspectors wouldnt pass it up here.

concretemasonry · 01-23-2009, 09:39 PM

Is there a legitimate ASTM test report to back up the claims. - Even if it is a "pink panther" steady state lab test it might be better than nothing.

If they are combining radiant insulation and foam, it could be some smoke a mirrors deal with little proof and a short life.

Vrooman · 01-23-2009, 10:03 PM

Product Alert
Product: P2000 Insulation (Rigid Board)
CCMC # 13180-L for the P2000 Silver
CCMC # 13202-L for the P2000 Bronze
P2000 has been evaluated as an insulation in conformance with
NBC 9.25.2.2 and CAN ULC S701-01, TYPE 1 "Thermal Insulation,
Polystyrene, Boards and Pipe Covering".
1. P2000 insulation has no affiliation with the R-2000 program other than a
similar sounding name.
2. P2000 has been tested and rated by CCMC as having an R value of 3.7 per
inch (R3.7).
3. In some of the product literature provided by the Nova Scotia distributor,
an equivalent rating of R27 per inch was given. This rating of R27 is not
supported by the CCMC testing.
4. For further information on the CCMC testing contact this office and
further material will be faxed

concretemasonry · 01-23-2009, 10:21 PM

Rating of R3.7 verses an equivilant rating of R37?

It sound like kiting a generous R3.7 rating to something totally unjustifiable. If it is actually true, you could not be able get it or afford it.

The typical guarded, steady state hot box test results can be very misleading, but not that much.

**joasis** · 01-24-2009, 02:36 AM

If it is too good to be true, it probably isn't true.

Jesse Kirchhoff · 01-24-2009, 09:26 AM

I started Google searching for P2000 reviews and found opinions swinging both ways. The only ones that backed up their opinions with real tests and trials where the pro-P2000 crowed. The others just gave personal opinions with no actual usage. I have never used it myself so I can not give a valid opinion.

P2000™ Insulation System Test

The P2000 Insulation System challenges conventional wisdom on what insulation looks like. Claims that it outperforms R-20 in one inch has many people shaking their heads. So we wanted to prove beyond any doubt that P2000 works. We contracted an internationally recognized lab to conduct a performance and comparison test with P2000 under extreme winter cold conditions (minus 29 celcius).

6” fiberglass ceiling and walls
(+ vapour barrier) Average R-value performance = 15.8

1” P2000 Foil on Foil Bronze Insulation board *
(with sheetrock, no vapour barrier) Average R-value performance = 27.43

5/8” P2000 Foil on White Bronze Insulation board *
(no sheetrock, no vapour barrier) Average R-value performance = 18.95

3/8” P2000 Foil on White Bronze Insulation board *
(no sheetrock, no vapour barrier) Average R-value performance = 14.68

* P2000 also serves as a vapour barrier.

Complete test report available for review upon request.

Test Procedure:

Test boxes were built with 2 x 6 wood studs, each equipped with a heat source, controlled by a thermostat set at 20 Celcius(room temp). A power meter was installed to monitor the amount of energy / heat used to maintain a 20 degree temperature for each box.

The boxes were insulated – One with 6 inches of fiberglass insulation and the others with different types of P2000 insulation. Then at the same time, all boxes were placed in a large cold chamber simulating extreme winter temperature conditions (minus 29 degrees).

During the test, several readings were recorded; temperature readings (inside & outside) and the energy used, by the heat lamp to maintain the inside temperature of each box.

The energy used to maintain the inside temperature (20 degrees) for each box is directly related to the amount of energy “lost” through walls of the box. The insulation efficiency was calculated based on the watts of power used to keep the box at 20 degrees and expressed as the “average R-value” for each test box.

http://www.p2000insulation.ca/testing/performance.php

jaros bros. · 01-24-2009, 09:33 AM

Yeah, another gimmick. I did some googling and found out it was a gimmick. They use a different method to confirm their high insulating values. I think the don't call it R but P value, not joking.
Realistically though, if you bought into it, I have a dam on the Colorado to sell to you.

Josh Jaros

concretemasonry · 01-24-2009, 09:39 AM

What is the ASTM standard for the test procedure?

Jesse Kirchhoff · 01-24-2009, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaros bros.

Yeah, another gimmick. I did some googling and found out it was a gimmick. They use a different method to confirm their high insulating values. I think the don't call it R but P value, not joking.
Realistically though, if you bought into it, I have a dam on the Colorado to sell to you.

Josh Jaros

Radiant Barrier Insulation......... What a crazy gimmick! I can't believe NASA fell for it for all these years -THOSE CRAZY FOOLS!

What next...are they going to say that I can cook my food with invisible "mico-waves" ?

Quote:

Radiant Barrier Insulation technology was developed by NASA to protect astronauts in the Apollo program from temperatures that ranged from 300 degrees above zero to 400 degrees below zero Fahrenheit, which resulted from just turning from sunshine into shadow.

The NASA scientists discovered that they would have to have a glove seven feet thick on the space suit, if they attempted to use conventional fiberglass insulation. Instead of trying to insulate the suits, they turned to reflective technology.

NASA astronauts now reflected heat of their own body back to keep them warm, while at the same time they used the Radiant Barrier to reflect the deadly direct radiation from the sun.

Radiant Barrier Insulation has been applied to every spacecraft since then, including unmanned spacecraft with delicate instruments needing protection from temperature extremes.technology was developed by NASA to protect astronauts in the Apollo program from temperatures that ranged from 300 degrees above zero to 400 degrees below zero Fahrenheit, which resulted from just turning from sunshine into shadow.

The NASA scientists discovered that they would have to have a glove seven feet thick on the space suit, if they attempted to use conventional fiberglass insulation. Instead of trying to insulate the suits, they turned to reflective technology.

NASA astronauts now reflected heat of their own body back to keep them warm, while at the same time they used the Radiant Barrier to reflect the deadly direct radiation from the sun.

Radiant Barrier Insulation has been applied to every spacecraft since then, including unmanned spacecraft with delicate instruments needing protection from temperature extremes.

**joasis** · 01-24-2009, 10:00 AM

Radiant barrier insulation has a place in industry, no doubt, but I think the claims they are making just don't work in reality. We use double bubble insulation under steel roofs...and it works great, summer months. Does nothing for the cold. See where I am going with this?

BY the way, EPS board in thick applications does in fact hit high numbers, but it has it's own problems.

jaros bros. · 01-24-2009, 10:32 AM

I wasn't disputing the fact that a reflective barrier works. I was disputing the fact that the P-2000 has R-40 per inch. One test done by an independent testing lab showed 10.7 R per inch. That is around what regular isocynate foil faced insulation gets.

Jesse Kirchhoff · 01-24-2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

The question of how to quantify performance of other systems such as radiant barriers has resulted in controversy and confusion in the building industry with the use of R-values or "equivalent R-values" for products which have entirely different systems of inhibiting heat transfer.

According to current standards, R-values are most reliably stated for bulk insulation materials. Calculating the performance of radiant barriers is more complex. The tests and procedures to evaluate bulk insulators are not applicable to radiant barriers.

I bet we will see a lot more information coming out about this subject. It seems to be a pretty hot item especially in the environmental and earth friendly circles

Dr Heat · 01-24-2009, 04:09 PM

Thank you,

I am still not sure what I will do. The sails guy came out and put on a dog and pony show.

He had a tube 4' tall with a 100 watt bulb in the bottom the tube was made with 3/8 P2000 he put a temp probe in the top. We were in my cow barn the temp was about 30 degrees Fahrenheit within 5 minutes the temp had risen to 105

Now here is my question for you insulation guru's.

I have sectioned off a part of my old cow barn. 30' X60' 8' ceilings. There is no insulation in the ceiling. The rafters are 2X12 16 oc with 2x2s running oposit 2' oc.

In your opinions what would be the cheapest way to insulate this area I heat it with a wood stove.

Jesse Kirchhoff · 01-24-2009, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Heat

Thank you,

I am still not sure what I will do. The sails guy came out and put on a dog and pony show.

He had a tube 4' tall with a 100 watt bulb in the bottom the tube was made with 3/8 P2000 he put a temp probe in the top. We were in my cow barn the temp was about 30 degrees Fahrenheit within 5 minutes the temp had risen to 105

Now here is my question for you insulation guru's.

I have sectioned off a part of my old cow barn. 30' X60' 8' ceilings. There is no insulation in the ceiling. The rafters are 2X12 16 oc with 2x2s running oposit 2' oc.

In your opinions what would be the cheapest way to insulate this area I heat it with a wood stove.

Did the sales guy show you this video? The good stuff is at the end and well worth watching. http://www.p2insulation.com/index.cfm?pageid=3

concretemasonry · 01-24-2009, 05:41 PM

There are even testing laboratories that will sell great insulation results.

They are usually not certified and modify the ASTM testing procedures and preparation slightly to skew the test results. It is really pretty easy if you are using a typical guarded hot box test and the material supplier is paying for the test.

So far. I have not seen any reasonable documentation of the CLAIMED insulation values. Keep in mind this is usually a steady state, short term test that has been shown not to be representative to real construction (although some "tinted" panthers will not admit it.