Has Anyone Heard Of This Ezfoamulator? By Spraymax

theroofinggod

and yes,It definitely appears that joasis is trashing the foam system,and pushing/spamming ? for cellulose as his son owns a company that sells it-I think Mr. Hay was perfectly justified in educating people on the foam,which is a big plus for this forum,rather than to hear people trash systems they don`t truly understand-

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joasis

I tried twice to engage you I a discussion about this product, and you backed off twice. You decided my son is an idiot because he installs a product that has market acceptance and is profitable. I said it a few times that we looked at spray foam systems and chose not to go that way for more then one reason....you simply do not want to hear it. I have another news flash for you: The link I provided to a machine on eBay is not the machine we use....not once I have I mentioned or gave a plug for the machine we purchased, nor the ICF block manufacturer I buy from. Now that it is clear you are simply posting to sell your machine, then you should abide by the rules of this forum and pay for advertising.

And, if none if this works for you, I have a phone number listed....I don't hide behind a keyboard.

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joasis

And if you read back, you might get another take...if you prefer, you can report the post and complain. I challenge you to find where I am spamming anything. Come on....find the post.

The spray foam industry creates enough PR for itself, and I am sure there are forums dedicated to it. This forum, had you not noticed, was not altered to promote Mr. Hays, his machine, or his system. This forum is for contractors to discuss their respective trades. Spray foam is but one of the trades in insulation.


And finally, roofinggod....I bet I know as much or more about the technology of what he is selling then you do. We have spray foam guys here, and have a fair understanding of the chemistry involved as well.

Anything else?

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joasis

As a moderator and member both, I take this stuff pretty seriously. I have re-read every post, and can find nothing to support your allegation that I am swearing at you......now, for the members, and myself, please quote and highlight the offensive language....

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joasis

I just re-read the entire thread, start to finish, for a 4th time, and fail to see the offending nature of the complaints against me. As a matter of fact, the information in post #28 was the start of a great discussion on the plural systems, and exactly why we did not enter this trade.

I tried a few times to discuss cost, and was ignored....why is that? Pricing of the product is secretive, or is the only price being discussed the machine?

An associate I know in the business has the Graco system, and when he buys the drums of products, he has a lot of money tied up....lots, and the shelf life is not long. He has shifted his business now to primarily roof coatings, and told me he was glad he didn't owe on the equipment.....

At last years home show, which we both did, he picked up a lot of interest, and sold a few jobs....same as we do with ICF homes. The facts are indisputable....most of the public will praise the new, and stick with the old.

I also brought up the point that remodel and repair work is difficult with spray foam applied.....it is a bear to remove. If it is on steel panels, we scrap them. Not cost effective there.

Now....all that said, I doubt we have another visit over this issue. And Tom, if you feel I have mistreated you, you can call me, or contact me personally, or Nathan, if you feel I have harmed you in any way. Look forward to it.

Added: I remember reading parts of this, and here is a pdf file with a code discussion....it does not "knock" your product, but the date indicates that total acceptance is not in fact, here yet. http://www.icc-es.org/Criteria_Devel...onses/AC12.pdf

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joasis

And with the time I took to read about Tom and his company, I recall that 3 years ago, I was talking with a rep out of Georgia, that gave me Mr. Hay's number, and if memory serves, we have talked on the phone about spray foams. This is not an "old home week" tale....just merely a small world.

After reading a lot further on the Topkick gun and system, great....I hope you find success with it. My original opinion remains the same.....it needs greater market acceptance. Since I "swore" at you, if I ever choose to expand in that direction, I will have to find another maker anyway.

And to close, is it really up to this forum to promote your business? Buy an add. Although, if your new gun works as claimed, you should have no problem running everyone else out of town, including the idiots that use cellulose.

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TomHay

joasis, I am not promoting any of my products or equipment on here. Someone started a thread asking a question about a particular machine we make. I would say you have access to that persons name.

I get notified via email that there is Urethane Bashing going on with the header of my company as thread.

Now let me bring you more up to date on what you said. You started off by saying the machine was to complicated. You however have never seen my equipment so you have zero knowledge on how complicated or uncomplicated it has been designed.

A few posts later you state that you have SPF applicators in your area but they mainly do roofing. Roofing is a LOT more complicated for SPF then wall insulation so that pretty much takes your complicated statement out the window.

I am asked about energy savings. I give a proven energy survey done by Texas A&M on millions of sq feet on their own facility which shows a 4 1/2 year payback. Had you taken the time to look it up you would find it was on SPF as a complete roof assembly which included tear offs, preparation and coatings so after 4 1/2 years the full roof paid for itself in enegy savings making the roof free and still giving them money back in energy savings.

Now the topic is on "Specialty Trades" Insulation. This means you have no knowledge if the poster wanted to do roofs or what with it. You also do not know if the person wanted to do a "Flash and Batt" type system and use cellulose over it with the SPF stricktly as a protector from draft so the cellulose could work more effeciantly. To you it is all to complicated for people to use and to expensive, which again, it might be for you, but not for the entire world.

Now, I am trying to retire. My partners are egging me on that I have to stay because business is to good and they feel my knowledge is important and there are many new products SprayMax has developed that need my attention.

On pricing this goes in two directions. 1. SPF comes in many differant densities, the set price remains the same but the yield of product differs in Board footage. Many want higher density foams for the increase in structural strength SPF can give, others just want it for insulation purposes. 2. I have heard ridulous low prices contractors are giving out and ridiculos high prices so it is very hard to calcualte what price is.

As far as advertising on here. My plan is to be retired and today was/is supposed to be the start of it. I am on the technical end, this would be for my partners to decide. I can tell you I would find it very unappealing to advertise some place where the Moderator has little to no belief in my product on their site and considers and calls me an arrogant ass because I have spent my lifetime in SPF and take bashing of my chosen livelyhood personal and will defend my industry from those that treat it as if it is some kind of con/ripoff.

I posted on this thread I used my real name, this was not to insult anyone that does not, it was to show clearly that you had done no investagation on the machine or product as my name is all over the site.

No, I am not an engineer. I also am not a Doctor but have the ability to put a thermometer in my mouth to see if I have a temperture and need to see a Doctor. Sometimes I need to see a Doctor after because he can do things I am not Lic to do like if I know I need a Z Pack I go, he write the prescription, I can not. That however does not mean I did not know I was sick or what I needed. This hold true with engineers and independent testing labs. I can in house test but need the engineers seal to make it official.

In closing do you think someone gave you my number because I was an arrogant ass or because I had knowledge? When you talked to me on the phone was I an arrogant ass or someone willing to share information for free?

In closing I just recently was on a forum thread where a poster was stating big SPF Roof companies had all gotten off the roof because the demand and money for spraying inside was greater then roofing. In here you post inside is to costly so they are all doing roofing. Maybe you two should argue the point, I don't know. It would sure save me a lot of typing though.

You find someone bashing SPF you will usualy find me.

joasis

You spent a lot of time typing....and a lot of assumptions. Retire gracefully. It will serve you well....probably your blood pressure as well.

Now, I do know several guys doing the spray foam, and they are starving out here....times are tough. It is not because the product is flawed, it is because of the cost. Get it? Customer reluctance to spend the money. We know geo thermal is great also, but at what cost?

With roofing, they can get away with a $2 a sq/ft charge and apply a board foot of material.

A cursory look (you know, quick glance) at your pictured machine looks like about any other machine out there. There is a lot of information online about the maintenance requirements for the upkeep of the plural systems. You have beat this, then great. My hat is off to you...I applaud you.

I took the time to read further, and it would appear you have a decent system, with a lot of possibilities......my opinion was still the same. People buy this equipment to make money....profit, build a business. Do we agree?

While the spray foam may be the perfect insulation system out there, it is not economical for most applications by contractors, because of (saying it again) public acceptance. We can insulate a 6 inch wall cavity (5-1/2 inches) with cellulose and obtain a satisfactory R value...beats fiberglass hands down, and see it to the builder for .55 a sq/ft applied. Do you see where I am going with this? It doesn't matter how many articles about rip off contractors you post from trade publications.....in this area, cellulose has probably 80% of the market, and fiberglass has most of the rest. Spray foam gets mostly commercial use.

Now, in closing, I believe when I talked with you a few years back, this was in developement, and we discussed costs of material and marketing. That is about all I remember, and I certainly don't remember thinking you were an "arrogant ass", which I did not call you.

Again, I wish you well, and I don't think it is our position to promote your product. My opinion remains unchanged, primarily due to the current economy.....if you can create a market niche and educate the public won your system, then by all means, go for it.

You know, you have said it a few times that you post under your name....my company information, including a phone number, is in front of you as well. thinking back, I cannot remember the company in Atlanta that built spray foam rigs for sale, but I bet you know who it is now.....

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TomHay

Joasis, sorry I don't know any firms in Atlanta that build spray rigs. I will have to take you at your word they are doing SPF roofs for $2.00 a sq ft in your area, that is give away pricing, I don't see how they can afford to do it for that.

.55 Cents a Finished foot? Lets say someone has an attic space 1,000 sq ft just to round numbers off. This means for $550.00 someone sends out a truck, say two men, or even one, has to pay for gas, Insurance on vehicle, materials, company overhead, Lic/Ins for company, sales commision and profit.

I don't see how it can be done.

Again Joasis, the thread was on a machine my company offers in comparison to say other like machines. As a Moderator you could have easily done a cellulois vs SPF thread. No one in the world will have a product or piece of equipment that will take over any industry, SPF is a survivor however, people keep bad mouthing it on any forum I have ever been on yet it still grows in the market place. I made a very nice living for over 40 years on multi components.

SLSTech

I wish I could get foam installed @ 2 - however Joasis point does stand, celuose will be the clear winner based on price / performance ratio --- For those that want the best product & performance, Closed Cell is the way to go but most people are not willing to pay the price

Back to the machine - that looks like similar ones marketed only for spraying rim Joists & touch up. I don't think it would work for spraying a whole house, at least efficiently. Am I correct?

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TomHay

SLS. I am an old guy and started at this very young. At one time the biggest machine out there was a Gusmer FF with a mechanical purge gun that did not come off the hose. The Felt wiper that lubricated the rod through the mixing chamber was wetted with diesel fuel. It sprayed 10LBs per minute and to this day there are still Commercial roofs I applied with this machine keeping buildings leak free as it did 40 years ago.

If you look at the video I believe you will see two in between sections of studs filled with closed cell, not 1/2 lb open in what (?) 30 seconds?

I consider ALL machines on the market today little Putt Putts as in most of my contracting years my pumps put out 132Lbs per minute of foam.

I think the main reason for any demand on the SprayMax Pump comes from it only needing 15 Amps (110), it weighs 125 Lbs (less then most High Pressure Cleaners) so one man can get it out of the vehicle and it wheels easily through a door with 21 inches in between the large tires.

I DO NOT reccomend it for roofing (maybe repairs of) but based on from where I started this machine would get 3 times the work done in a day with proper knowledge and maintanance.

Funny thing is we had it up on our Web Site and took away the link to get to it from our pages as we could not keep up so I guess the page link is just floating around out there.

solar1

this discussion is funny. many here don't understand the facts.

I spray closed cell, open cell AND blow cellulose. All have their places. Generally Closed cell Foam is the best unless you want vapor permability, or 'cheapest' .

people need to learn about building science before acting like experts.

TomHay

Closed Cell Foam breathes, it is not a vapor barrier. You could spray it as thick as you want on say white sandblasted steel, eventualy it would rust. Polyurea (pure) in many formulations is a true vapor barrier. There is no such thing as 100% closed cell foam

kasey

Mr. Hay, I'm interested in getting involved in insulating as a business and I am interested in your product but I think you could have been a bit more transparent sooner in these postings to the fact that you own Spraymax. You obviously have a vested interest in influencing people to have a positive view of your product.

Being up front as to your identity would have been better then leaving it up to chance that someone would find out who you were.

TomHay

Kasey, please don't start up a needless fire. I post under my real name and had anyone gone through the site they would have seen my name and ugly mug on the Front page. A majority of the posters on this know me from other threads. Those that know me would post I would have given the same reaction had it been NCFI, Polythane System, Foam Enterprises or any other SPF. If you don't believe me, ask them.

KCCT

I always doubted how "flame retardant" ground up newspaper could be, that is until I put an oxy acetelene torch to a pile of it and it simply WOULD NOT BURN!

joasis

I still hear the same, tired old tales about cellulose. Since this new economic climate is taking over, we will stick to tried and proven.

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kasey

Sorry, Tom, I'm not trying to start any fires at all but Tom Hay is not a household name. You can't expect me to connect your name to Spraymax. I'd never heard of either before coming to this site. A simple fix would be to put under trade, "President and owner of Spraymax" or words to that effect, since that is your occupation.

TomHay

Kasey, during all this but short time I gave a farwell school and retired. My position is semi retired Tech Advisor which I am with other companies as well which at that and this time makes me independent. The words written on equipment posted on this thread did not come from the SoyThane Site. They came from a blog on the NRG Forum and were copied there with my permision by the webmaster of SoyThane. My occupation is semi retired. Again, had this same thread been on Graco/Gusmer/Glascrats fine lines of equipment my responces would be the same. Tom Hay not a House Hold name? Hmmmm you must not be a woman.

joasis

I think this thread has run it's course. Closed.

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