Has anyone heard of this ezfoamulator? by spraymax - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

healthyhomes · 02-10-2009, 06:36 PM

I want to start a very small side business spraying soybased foam on residential jobs. This is mainly for my own jobs. This is a very cost effective way to get started.. under 10K and your ready to spray.

I have done ample research and realize there is a quality difference between this and some of the full setips I like by Graco, but it just doesnt make sense for me to spend this kind of money. I am thinking of starting with this, and seeing how it goes.

Please, any advice is appreciated! Here is a link

http://soythane.com/EZFoamulator

**joasis** · 02-10-2009, 07:53 PM

I would not do it. Plain and simple. Looking at the equipment, it still looks like a maintenance hog, and the cost of materials is still high. Plus, the teaser price just gets you in the door....can you imagine needing 110 feet of hose? Oops.

My son has a cellulose insulation service. Low equipment investment, good return, market acceptance....and there are a lot of potenital customers out there.....energy costs go up, people want more blown in the attics....new construction, wet spray the walls. The material does not have a shelf life, and is not hazardous to your health.....lots of positives. Like this machine: http://cgi.ebay.com/Krendl-insulatio...3%3A1|294%3A50

parts · 02-11-2009, 04:25 PM

Just look at the MSDS wow

Framer53 · 02-12-2009, 12:45 AM

Man with that MSDS sheet, I could sell a lot of cellulose!!!!

healthyhomes · 02-12-2009, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parts

Just look at the MSDS wow

It's pretty intimidating... but its the same as demilecs heatlok soy, the sealselection, and pretty much all other brands.

After doing ALOT of research the last couple nights, Im a little apprehensive.

It's a new thing for residential applications... definately good insulator, but at what cost

parts · 02-12-2009, 12:55 PM

They were spraying 2lbs density foam in the 2x6 slopes of the house I just left everything else is cellulose. The truck smelt like a chemical factory when he sprayed so did the house. I left for the day just getting over bronchitis and it it burned. Don't think it's something I would want to deal with day to day.

johnk · 02-12-2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joasis

I would not do it. Plain and simple. Looking at the equipment, it still looks like a maintenance hog, and the cost of materials is still high. Plus, the teaser price just gets you in the door....can you imagine needing 110 feet of hose? Oops.

My son has a cellulose insulation service. Low equipment investment, good return, market acceptance....and there are a lot of potenital customers out there.....energy costs go up, people want more blown in the attics....new construction, wet spray the walls. The material does not have a shelf life, and is not hazardous to your health.....lots of positives. Like this machine: http://cgi.ebay.com/Krendl-insulation-machine-with-automatic-conveyer_W0QQitemZ220356304086QQcmdZViewItemQQptZL H_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item220356304086&_trksid=p3 286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3 A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

I think the ez foamulator would be the cats meow.And parts for it are readily available.This is a selling feature of this machine,the ease of use and maintainence.It also runs on 110,so no need for 220.Check the website out...it says right on there you can buy 1/4 hose at Home Depot.

TomHay · 02-12-2009, 07:07 PM

I have to agree, applying basicly ground up old newspaper is cheap and easy.

Did you ever stop and wonder why your refridgerator at home uses Urethane Foam?

The Space Shuttle people are very cheap, thats why they stopped putting coating over the foam on the shuttle. Cellulouse is cheaper, wonder why they don't use it instead.

It is a gimmie that you need a more profesional person to spray foam. I did it for 40 years with an 8th grade education.

Sorry, but SoyThane is NOT like the other foams mentioned. SoyThane is 90% Soy on the B side and the only foam to have a negative carbon footprint.

Got another flash for ya. Urethane foam is under the carpet you walk on, it is the cushion you sit on, its the bumper of your car and many of your computer components are Urethane.

I could easily live the rest of my life without celluloise but you could not without urethane.

Hope I cleared this up.

**joasis** · 02-12-2009, 07:23 PM

Maybe you can sell the spray foam systems as a new career. Now, while you two are praising it, explain why there are problems with it in the market, and code acceptance is having a second look in some jurisdictions?

I think the plural spray foam system has many positive attributes. The original question was out opinion of the specific machine, and the product.

If you know the market, then you know why these machines are getting cheaper.....a lot of insulators jumped on the spray foam wagon, and are finding for residential, it is a tough sell........the product cost is high, the margins are low....and to further, what happens if you were to get a home as tight as a refrigerator? Air exchangers?

TomHay · 02-12-2009, 07:44 PM

Sure would love to address this. I wrote Protocol 109 for Metro Dade for the High Wind Building Code

To date no Building Code in the world is evaluating taking it out. Most places give high tax credits for putting it in.

No question some have bought Foam Equipment and failed but some people have bought a hammer and can't hit a nail in with it, that has nothing to do with a good Foam Mechanic.

Both the Batt and Celluloise people are fighting for life by converting to Flash and Batt Systems using first 1" of spray foam then backing it up their insulation.

The Building Codes today are trying to create an "Envelope" for structures to prevent mold etc. This can only be accomplished with Spray Foam and your roof MFG for residential such as shingle roofs are endorseing its use to the hilt.

Oh, the EZFoamulator has training available and tech support. Lots of luck getting one though they are being sold faster then they can be made.

**joasis** · 02-12-2009, 08:04 PM

So address the questions. Acceptance, toxic issues during a fire, excessively tight building envelopes and the need of mechanical air exchange, ....you know, simple stuff.

I don't doubt you know your field, but you do not have a corner on the market of what is going on nationwide. In the hurricane zones, it in fact does lend to structural strength.....and with high humidity, it probably has a benefit.

Now, one last point. There are many systems out there that are green, and extremely energy efficient....but the pay back can be a decade or two....so how do you see this affecting the market?

And finally, as to the shortage of machines....well...you see a cellulose machine come on eBay once a week average....there are several listings for spray foam outfits...and you still can't find one that does not require a lot of maintenance.

TomHay · 02-12-2009, 08:18 PM

Sir, many claim to be green but are not. SoyThane is made from 90% Soy and has a negative carbon footprint.

An Energy study was done on Urethane Foam which was independent of ANY manufacturers. The results showed an average payback of 4 1/2 years, not only in savings but paying for the whole instalation. This was done many years ago. Since energy has gone up a faster payback would be seen.

Now I guess you are not aware of assemblies for all construction. For interiors Urethane Foam has a Class 1 Rating (they don't come higher). As a Roof they have UL 790's (They don't come any higher).

Now are you saying other insulations do not burn??????????

By the way, you find very few Foam Units Used on Ebay, I look all the time for a steal. New ones over priced???????? Lots of them which I believe brings this thread to a circle back to original poster.

**joasis** · 02-12-2009, 08:24 PM

I don't dispute foam has a place in the market, but like geo thermal, I doubt it will ever be 4 years. I see the spray foam guys here starving, and selling out...and I am glad my son didn't buy into it.

The cellulose we use is fire retardant. http://www.fiberlitetech.com/

It is cost effective, and the payback time is short.

BTW, I am still looking for the articles about problems with spray foam, but it may be limited to the polyureas.

TomHay · 02-12-2009, 08:32 PM

Keep digging till your eyes water.

Problems with Celluloise, easy to find.

http://www.homeenergy.org/archive/he...00/001112.html

I want to thank you for making me look good.

**joasis** · 02-12-2009, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomHay

Keep digging till your eyes water.

Problems with Celluloise, easy to find.

http://www.homeenergy.org/archive/he...00/001112.html

I want to thank you for making me look good.

Your source is not buildingscience.com, and appears to be an opinion piece. Making you look good is only if you have a mirror. I think you must be a rep for the spray foam guys.

What you are not is a working general contractor in the business of construction, and making a profit in these lean times. I gave you the source of the material we use, and now you are posting an attack piece? Try a little harder.

BTW, what exactly is your trade besides promoting spray foam? You understand this site of for contractors?

TomHay · 02-12-2009, 09:16 PM

Sorry my friend, you were the one looking up bad things on Foam but could not find. You also threw a name out as a Mfg for celluloise I doubt anyone walking down the street would know. Now with Urethane Foam such names as Bayer, General Electric and Dow are highly involved. Are they part of a scam?

No my Friend I am not a General Contractor in these rough times though I remember similar in the early 70's with partial houses and commercial buildings just left, no money.

I was however a Roofing and Insulation Contractor for 40 years and spent every day of it in Urethane Foam. I was called on by the National Roofing Contractors Association to evaluate roofs after Hurricaine Andrew with Tom Smith of the NRCA. I wrote Protocol 109 for Metro Dade and many Product Control Approvals for Building Codes.

At Present I am Semi Retired (about to fully retire) and make my RT Custom Cue Sticks again (hopefully you don't hate Pool).

My name is right up there for you to see, I only post under my true name, Tom Hay.

**joasis** · 02-12-2009, 09:22 PM

Enjoy your retirement. Spray foam will always be an option, but will not dominate the market. My name is also available, in full, with a number.

tinner666 · 02-12-2009, 09:23 PM

Yep, it's Tom alright. I'll vouch for that/him.

johnk · 02-12-2009, 09:23 PM

Right on Tom!!

**joasis** · 02-12-2009, 09:28 PM

To carry the discussion further, do you see a negative on the health effects of a home that is virtually sealed? The added costs of having to exchange the air?

BTW, here is the MSDS on the product we use:

http://www.fiberlitetech.com/FL%20MSDS.pdf

I take exception to the idea that all insulators "cheat"

[Cheating involves the shorting of blown cellulose, fiberglass, or rock wool insulation and overblowing or fluffing of blown fiberglass. Shorting simply means that all of the material needed to achieve a given R-value is not installed. For instance, if the average settled depth of cellulose is 5 1/2 inches for an R-30 attic when in reality it should be 8 inches, then the attic has been shorted 31% and has an R-value of 19. Here in the Southwest where I work, it is very common to find 30% of the blown cellulose missing in an attic. I'm only surprised these days when I find an attic in which the work was done correctly.]

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