Onarooftop

Hi, I own a roofing company. I have 8-10 guys working for me. I am interested in possibly doing some blown in insulation for past customers that have shown some interest.
Does anybody know anything about the AttiCat ? (Owen's Corning machine) ?

Thanks

joasis

Krendl is the preferred machine. It will do cellulose and fiberglass...and I can tell you, cellulose beats fiberglass hands down, and doesn't eat a guy alive blowing it.

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SHS-Matt

I've seen the Atticat system recently and it looks okay for some light applications. I wouldn't want to purchase one for $6000 (though a distributor, OC doesn't sell direct) and think I can do multiple jobs a day. The bags are compact and easily handled. I know that either HD or Lowe's rents them. I would suggest trying out one of their machines before dropping down the big bucks.

Also, the fibergalss that the Atticat uses is really not bad as far as the itching and scratching. We worked with it for about 3 hours and I was fine.

parts

I'd agree Krendl is the way to go they make some smaller ones that can be picked up at a reasonable price and in my experience they last a very long time. Even the smaller rental units

parts

Just watched a vid on the OC Atticat it looks very much geared to home owners and DIY types it only holds half a bag at once and appears very lightly constructed. For the money you can get an all fiber machine that would be a lot more useful

Grumpy

I will do attic cat or cellulose for the same price, the money is really in the labor and what the customer is willing to pay.

I wouldn't buy a amchine, I get free rental from Hoem Depot and Lowes, although Home Depot doesn't sell blown fiberglass, only cellulose. Lowes does AttiCat and cellulose. The machines are different for sure, a cellulose machine will not blow fiberglass.

Let HD and Lowes worry about the maintence and storage of the machine. I am not paying $6k for a machine that I'll use a dozen times a year and probably get stolen.

You can do 2 or 3 jobs in a day depending on how long your guys are willing to work. It goes real quick. The very first job we did took 8 hours to do 2 jobs including picking up the material, machine, travel, and returning the machine. These jobs were both about 1000 sq ft each, at a blown thickness of about 12" each. I figure a minimum of 4 hours into every job.

The first job included, what the second did not, was baffles in the rafters to keep the insulation from being blocked. That added 30 minutes to the job.

If you are blowing the fiberglass, wear a tyvek suit preferrably with a hood. I didn't get all tore up though my forehead was a little bit tender the next day.

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-Grumpy
Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

Alwaysworkin

I recently bought an AttiCat machine and can not be happier with the performance of the machine. I can manually lift and transport it in the back of my truck and it is ready to go on the job once it is plugged in. The machine is very easy to use, so i don’t have to spend time training guys on the workings of the machine. It’s as simple as once you see the paddles install another half bag.

I have been equally as happy with the AttiCat insulation. I was hesitant at first of installing insulation as part of my roofing business. I hate working in the attic. But i was actually quite pleased that the Atticat does not itch, AT ALL!!! I have installed a cellulose job in an addition i did a while back and the dust and mess was enough to keep me away until I found this fiberglass system.

Overall for installing insulation in homes and apartments my AttiCat machines has performed and meet my expectations and the increased profits are a nice bonus too!

joasis

Do you own a piece of the company? Cellulose will beat fiberglass on performance, hands down.

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Alwaysworkin

In what ways is it better?

parts

Cellulose has less air infiltration and a stable R value at low temperatures. It may be dusty but I'd crawl around in it in shorts and a tee shirt as opposed to fiberglass. Also attic cat is open blow only no walls or under floors. Even a Force machine would be better

joasis

I can't think of any instance fiberglass can be compared to cellulose....remember, you are placing a product made from spun glass fibers and trying to sell it on R value?

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mrrodgersnot

First, Don't buy a machine!!! Not worth it unless you are doing 2-3 jobs a day!!!

Second, There is no way cellulose can even compare to Atticat. Cellulose will grow mold, settle and burn. Atticat will NOT do any of those things! Cellulose makes a mess when doing it. Atticat makes no mess. And sorry, but I use Atticat everyday and I have never gone home itching!!!!! Thank GOD I don't live in Oklahoma with Ladwig and have a company saying cellulose is better. Pretty sure they are just out to make a profit by going back every few years to put more cellulose in. So SORRY to their customers!!!

Third, talk to your Lowes or Home Depot guys and if you are using the machine alot they will wave the deposit for you! I use a machine each week and the store ordered another machine so there would always be one there for me and other customers!!!

joasis

Do you have any solid information to back up your claims with? Anything from building science.com? Manufacturers specs? I don't think Owens Corning would make those wild, totally ridiculous proclamations without the ability to prove up, and since what you said is basically nonsense, I guess we won't see it.

When you come on these forums, and post your "opinions", be prepared to back it up.

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joasis

Dispelling the Myths of Mold and Fire Risk in Cellulose Insulation
Fire Safety

Besides saving you money, Cellulose insulation also provides extremely effective fire retardant capabilities.

Tests conducted by independent laboratories shows that Cellulose insulation provides an effective 1 hour fire rating. This will slow the spread of a fire allowing you more time to escape any danger. This is because Cellulose is specially treated with fire retardants in the manufacturing process to meet or exceed all fire safety requirements.

The following table shows two key measures of how three types of insulation react in a fire: speed of Fire Spread and Smoke Developed. The lower the numbers, the better.

Fire Spread refers to the speed at which flames “spread” along the surface of the insulating material. Smoke Developed refers to the amount of smoke that is produced while the product burns. In most house fires, it is not the flames which cause serious personal injury but rather smoke inhalation. Smoke also increases confusion during a crisis and obscures important fire exits.
Insulation Type

Flame Spread

Smoke Developed
Cellulose insulation 15-20 0-5
Fiberglass 0-5 <50
Open Cell Foam 25 <450

Mold

A frequent argument against using Cellulose insulation is the myth that it is more prone to mold than other insulation materials. This is simply not true. Backed by rigorous testing, Cellulose insulation meets all of the standards established by the ASTM for fungi resistance.

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mrrodgersnot

How awesome, the good ol boys have spoken! You DO have some excellent points. I am also glad you brought in the whole ASTM, you know the ones that once said asbestos was ok. Every company or organization has their flaws!!!

Yes, I have info to back up everything that I posted!
Let's go back to the ASTM. Did you read long enough into their report to the point that they did NOT test cellulose 5-7 years old. They never stated any thing from that?!?!?! Well atleast I couldn't find it. The "perfect" numbers you stated are totally true. Of course that comes with the testing of both products right out of the package.

Do your own test. Try to light each product on fire(right from the bag) in a control area. They both do the same thing. Now go and get 5-7 year old product of each and see the difference. Cellulose will burn, it will not make a huge fire or anything but it will transfer the flame. The Fiberglass will just disappear. It will not transfer the fire!!!

Now to the price issue. Currently Cellulose is around $8 bucs a bag at Lowes, the Atticat is around $28 bucs. Here's the catch, IT TAKES 3 BAGS OF CELLULOSE TO EQUAL 1 BAG OF ATTICAT!!!!! Kindof takes out the price issue!!!

Cellulose is made of pressed paper that is soak in something to meet regulations that it is suppossed to. Just like treated wood, someday that treatment will disappear!!! Once it does disappears and starts to settle it will grow mold and it will burn. Cellulose, once it settles, can not breath so all this will happen! Look it up! I'd tell you but since you come with all the "plus's" I'm sure you can find the truth!

Now, don't get me wrong. Both cellulose and atticat are great products. It's just that atticat is a step above. Fiberglass is just like a spider web. A spider web will not fall down (settle) unless made to. A spider web doesn't burn. Sorry I don't know too many good things about cellulose.

I truely invite you to do your own test. Everytime I have done my own test with my customers it shows which product is better. Oh and if you need solid information just go to Owens Corning web site and check it out. Anyways, how did Building Science become the know it all. Weren't they the ones who said Trex decking was the best decking made and now Trex has many lawsuits against their products.

Once again, everyone has their own opinions! To bad its usually the progressive thinkers that are ahead of the rest!

joasis

Unless you are "qualified" to do testing, then how could you determine the results?

I would assume that you are not a contractor, since those who work in the field do not use Lowes are their primary supplier. I agree, if you buy from a box store, then you probably save more using a "spider web" of spun glass wool.

My son takes a semi van of insulation, 30 lb. bags, 1100 to a load, every time he stocks, and this is purchased from the manufacturer, not at Lowes. We also buy fiberglass batts for special jobs, and again, direct.

The 20 pound bags at Lowes, Home Depot, and other DIY stores are packaged for the DIY crowd, and not for commercial installers. We buy the 30 pound bags for less, and then, by your math, that changes the picture entirely.

How long have you been doing this again?

I really suspect that you are not engaged in the insulation business, and if you wish to share your experience, please feel free to register on DIY Chatroom.

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joasis

A little more for those who believe the myth:

The killing blow to cellulose fire hazard claims may have come from the National Research Council Canada in 1994. After extensive tests sponsored by the cellulose industry, the mineral fiber insulation industry, the gypsum industry, and several other companies, trade associations, and government agencies NRCC reported that fiber glass slightly decreased the fire resistance of insulated walls, while cellulose produced a 22% to 55% increase in fire resistance.

In 1995 NRCC tested floor-ceiling assemblies and found that cellulose increased fire resistance more than twice as well as fiber glass. The report stated: "Glass, mineral, and cellulose fiber insulations produced an increase in the fire resistance performance of 44%, 64%, and 104%." The lowest failure point for a fiber glass-insulated floor-ceiling assembly was 64 minutes; the lowest failure point for an assembly insulated with cellulose was 92 minutes.


Full Source: http://www.rtekinsulation.com/cellul...resistance.htm

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nopper

I cant find info from Owens Corning stating that Atticat cant be blow into walls. Can someone confirm??

Framer53

If it was able to blow into walls, don't you think it would be stated?

You are looking for the negative. It won't be there!

parts

You can't blow walls with it only open blow