Your Billable Hourly Rate

mahlere

as pointed out...the workers are earning below poverty level and i'm the one being demeaning?

i did grow up....I do this for a living, not for practice....

Wolfgang

Man did this thread take a downwards turn. Every market is different for every trade. I do very few T&M jobs. I have two full-time employees at 21.50 and 23.50 respectively. Both made well over 55K this year with overtime. Worth every penny they're paid. I've found the niche in the market where I want to be. Would you do an exterior of a house for T&M? Not me. I've done exteriors where my hourly figured well over $200 per. I wont do commercial at all because I wont have a GC "tell me" what I can make. Any contractors that I do work with accept my figures because they know what they're getting.

In my earlier post on this thread I stated I wouldnt lower my rates because of the economy. I did that many years ago and it took me forever to build them back up. I've put 26 years in this profession and thats what I charge for. Most of my clients are referrals so people know what to expect. I gave up "looking for the fast buck", and my income has stayed a steady growth over the years. If it drops a little for the next year or two so be it. Physically, I have maybe two years of painting left and my ladder days are over.

Think about it. Ever drop your rates or charges for a customer and have them turn out to be the ones that want everything for nothing and just perfect? Where "perfect" is never good enough?

To end on a lighter note: Had a guy call me a few years ago to paint the exterior of his house. Guy had more money than he knew what to do with. I shot him a bid and he went ballistic. Very calmly I explained everything involved and the cost of doing business. Continued to call me for over a year wanting to know if I had re-thought my bid. Heck he even tried to get his house painted for the Paint-a-thon for elderly low income people. So this spring he calls again. I ask him what he thinks is fair. He says no painter is worth over $10 an hour. I give him a number to call and tell him they have plenty of $10/hr painters. Calls me back the next day to say I gave him the wrong number...he kept getting the Open Door Mission. Told him thats where he'd find plenty of $10 painters. House still hasnt been painted as of 2 weeks ago.

WisePainter

Why am I defending myself against other members with no mention of painting in the "trade" section of their profiles?

Why bother with the painting forum if you aren't going to add something useful?

__________________
My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

rbsremodeling

You should not look at it at defending yourself. it is just a bunch of guys hanging out talking shop. that's it period!

I do remodeling and I go into every section of this forum to learn and give some tips and advice when I can.

The rest of my time is spent giving guys hell who take the bait

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mahlere

shhhh....you're gonna rooon it....

mahlere

though, i do get a kick out of it when guys get upset and pissed because you tell them they are better than, and worth more than, they think they are....

you'd think I told them they charged too much

WisePainter

I guess "defending" was not the correct word to use.

I would rather discuss off topic issues (giving hell) in the "General Discussion" forum.
I know I do (give hell) from time to time when this forum is a bit slow.
Imo this is where full time painters come to share information and seek advice about...well painting.
Not to poke around the painting forum and annoy others when your posted trade is a full time electrician.

Hey Malhelerel or whatever your name is, I know what it is like to be out of work and angry. That doesn't mean you should take it out on others though.
I forgive you, can we be friends now?

__________________
My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

world llc

it doesn't matter... we'r all in business to make money, and i would like to believe that we all are. some people are just not ok with other people not being or thinking exactly like them. i'm sure they would be if we did and took all their work...


i am happy with my lifestyle, my guys are happy with their wages ( minimum wage is 7.15 if you guys want to talk poverty) and my clients are happy with my work.

mahlere

i'm an neither...life is good...and I don't befriend painters..."i have no business living in your world"

j/k...no harm, no foul...

world llc

don't forget the lube, ladies

WisePainter

Maybe if the "skilled" trades had a bunch of illegals stealing their work they wouldn't act so cavalier when speaking about "striving" to make "big money" as a painter...This is no time to joke around, we have bills and families too.
As a matter of fact I "strive" to beat out every 20 man Mexican painting crew in town, and I am barely able to eek out a living because of them.
Especially when they low ball in a lame economy.

I have never met a Plumber or an electrician that did not speak any English.

__________________
My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

WisePainter

Aw c'mon, I was just warming up.

__________________
My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

mahlere

you've never been on a residential new construction site in NJ then...

for the record, there are electrical contractors (and I use that work loosely) in NJ who are charging and competing with the same as you...

we just moved away from that work years ago...

that's why I get so upset...there are options...you aren't stuck in the position you are in...you just choose to accept it...i chose not to...doesn't mean i'm right for how i feel...just means i'm right that you have alternative...

WisePainter

Well to be clear, my mind/spirit is willing but the economy ain't.
I am a high end painter that takes pride in the trust I earn from my high end customers that allow me into their homes to do quality work.
Even though lately they are far and few between due to the multitude of "2 F*ucks in a Truck" painting, and the throngs of illegals here in KC.
I have been in KC for only 2 years and have been requested in some of the wealthier areas, but I have to abide by the rules of the economy.
That is frustrating.
I cannot complain though I am busy, and my prices are slowly rising again.

Talk to me in 2010 when I see us all making what we are worth and more, and the frustration we business owners are feeling now will be long gone.

__________________
My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

mahlere

i don't buy it...it's not the economy...it's not your time in.....it's not anything but you (i mean that metaphorically)....

I can give you the name of a dozen electrical contractors who will install a ceiling fan for under $100 tomorrow...They will add the wiring and a switch for another $100 or less...so, you can have a ceiling fan and switch for $150-$200...We'll go out tomorrow and do that job for $400...and get it...and I can give you the name of 2 electrical contractors who will charge you $500+ for that job...and they will do more installs than the $200 guys...

i'm not gonna go on, unless you have some questions, but most contractors are their own worst enemies and their largest stumbling blocks...we rationalize the hell out of things and try to justify our lack of action...

sorry, off my soapbox now...

Msargent

The bulk of my work comes from secondary homeowners near local ski area i couldnt ever nor would i want to afford the taxes let alone the mortage im happy to commute and pay a little more at the gas pump.

mahlere

don't kid yourself....you would want to if you made enough money...

Celtic

($7.15 is well below what is considered The Self-Sufficiency Standard for New Jersey 2008. One adult is at $13.91/hr in Morris County.
If you want to pat yourself on the back for paying in excess of minimum wage, go right ahead....I am pretty sure the Mickey D's on Springfield and Union next to the burnt down gas station in New Providence also pays more than $7.15/hr....but the wages paid by both you and Mickey D's are still well below a self-sufficiency standard.)

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WisePainter

Listen to him Msargent, resistance is futile...

__________________
My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

Msargent

No thanks i would like to live abit closer but not on the damn hill. Hey i dont blame you for being sour at painters when was the last time someone said hey nice outlet ? usually its hey painter can you patch my hole i screwed up and misplaced the sconce.