What Type Of Training Works?

kanadaeh

This is my third yr with my painting biz and I have learned a lot from contractortalk. The phone is ringing, we are booked 3 moths out. I am improving on the hiring process which takes much work. I started hiring for attitude and work ethic, and I am training the skill. However, I would like to speed up this process with training systems. Here is what I have been considering purchasing. Any feedback?

Wheels of Learning-Painting Manual
I was thinking of the 3 books for student and teacher. Looks like it may be good for teaching the technical part of the craft.
Price: approx. 1200.00

Craftsman Operating Procedures
This looks like a much simpler way to go and also good for the technical part.
Price: approx. 325.00

NAPP-In-Gear Business Management Series?
This looks like a great all around program to join although there was not a lot of info on the training programs. Also, the price for joining NAPP is only 125.00 but does this include the various training programs as well?

The Operations Manual from outofthebucket.com
I will eventually purchase these manuals. I think they would definitely help my business.

Thanks in advance for the help
Kanadaeh

welovepainting

All that you have mentioned is just what you should do. I personally would choose Wheels of Learning I Instructed one of three courses 5 years ago and learned a great deal and we had fun doing it... OutOfTheBucket would also be a great way to go...


As to your question about in gear business management yes thats an adition cost of 150.00 if your a member non members is like 175.00 I think

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kanadaeh

Thanks
I'm gearing to wards Wheels of Learning-Painting Manual as well. Approx how long(I know everyone learns at a different level) could I expect to train someone to a competent level (minimal supervision) with these manuals?

Here is link for Craftsman Operating Procedures
http://pdcamasterpainter.com/COPs.php
Looks interesting

lornmastro

I also believe in hiring for work ethic and character and training on the job so i'm also interested in finding some sort of training manual. great thread!!

Frankawitz

Wow! So that's how you learn to paint is out of a book ,, Holly crap I figured you would use a brush and roller or maybe a sprayer but a book who would have thunk it, Damn if the guy who showed me how to paint was alive he would be rolling on the ground laughing. A book to paint OMG!

kanadaeh

Lol You funny!
In this day and age, everything is moving a lot faster. When I started painting, it took 3-5 years (without a book LoL) to train a painter to a competent level. I am aiming to do it inside of 6 months. A good training manual will be another tool that helps me accomplish this. If it eliminates 20% of my work, I'm happy. I will train 3-5 painters at a time. Next season I will bring in more people and let them replicate this training system, thus growing my team quickly. There is a construction boom going on here right now and I want to take advantage of this because, like everywhere else, it won't last forever. I now hire for attitude. Skill can be trained, attitude can't. I have tried hiring for skill and it didn't work. I know there is exceptions but my experience is they want more $ than I make. They dictate when they feel like working. They don't want to share their ancient trade secrets with new recruits. Enough of that. I need dedicated people to share my vision. I now hire people who "Go the Extra Mile"

Imagine the chuckle he would get from laptops, GPS tracking, cloning a sheep!
Building a successful painting business today is a lot different than 20 years ago. Everything changes. Change is in unavoidable. Change or be changed.
C'mon man. It's the 90's. It's Hammer Time.

Brian

The best training is that which is applied. If you don't apply the information, you can spend a lot of money with no results.

The sources you mention offer different things, so your particular goals will determine which is the best fit for you today. Your needs tomorrow may be different, and thus a different souce will be necessary.

If it is training painters, Wheels of Learning is the place to start. If it is building your business, NAPP provides what you need.

Brian Phillips

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Houston Interior Painting
Houston Exterior Painting
Houston Painting Contractor

kanadaeh

I had just faxed my NAPP application and I plan on purchasing "Wheels of Learning" very soon. Training painters is a very important part of building my business.

Steve Richards

I think the best training method is:

"Now watch this, because I'm only gonna show you once"

DelW

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ModernStyle

My training consisted of being handed a brush, a roller and a can of paint, then getting my a$$ chewed every time I screwed up. We used to work out of 5 gallon buckets to paint exteriors with solid oil stain, we used 7 inch rollers on the overhangs. I would take my roller dunk it in the paint and start rolling away, but for some reason at the end of the day i was the only one covered in paint from head to toe. Then one day I noticed how the other guys just skimmed the roller across the top of the paint in the bucket.
Nobody ever really showed anyone anything at that company so i just kinda figured out who I thought were the best painters and watched how they went about it. I taught myself how to operate an airless and an HVLP, the other painters didnt want to show me because they told me it was their job security. I have been painting for 14 years and i dont think a book could really tell me anything of value, and I wouldnt hire a painter whos only experience was in a book. I could read a book on carpentry, but would you really want to live in a house i built ?

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lornmastro

I think Kanadaeh has no plans to skip the on the job training he is just hoping to speed things up by using a book. A book put out by an orgainization that I think we all respect NAPP!! I haven't had a chance to look at the book yet but I would think that book would be more th0rough and less apt to skip the details or avoid them all together,like modernstyles on the job training. Modernstyle that is a crappy way to learn a trade.

ModernStyle

The way I learned is the way I learned, I am good at what I do.

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cutnroller

hey yall im just about 2 years in now after much help from many of you when i was first getting things off the ground. this topic really peaked my interest since it's the hardest thing for me to get a grip on.

i noticed some people mention the "pay attention cause im not gonna show you twice" method and that's the way i was taught. and i notice some people embracing the newer more streamlined modern approach which im not against.

the problem for me is time and money. surprise. if i take the time to train these guys myself i find i neglect other areas such as bookkeeping and such, and it seems like 1200 is a lot to pay for a training system (yes i know it will all pay off in the end the problem is allocating that kind of money to something that will take a while to pay off).

so how does a small operator like myself find that good balance? i get up to only 10 guys at the most during the summer and drop off to 4-5 during the winter.

i tried the approach where i was paying top dollar for painters who supposedly had 3,4,5,6 years experience only to find that saying you have 6 years experience means nada. i was figuring after a few days they maybe had a few weeks solid experience (judging by the way they handled even the basics). so i took to really trying to teach them the old school ways that were taught to me by a master painter. that didn't work.

so anyways im surviving (much to the credit of so much valuable info i have found in this forum) but its a battle every day.

man this is getting long. im finding, due to a worker shortage here, that if you push people too hard they simply go off crying and get hired by the next guy. so i always finding myself holding back when i should be saying "get yer f#$%king game on boy or your gone".

well this is just turning into a rant. its been a long summer and im "in the bucket" way too much to allow me to focus on the other aspects of my biz such as office work and the website and all that.

so i guess my question is... how do you encourage guys to learn and have a good work ethic without making them go home to their mommies.

man ive been away from this forum way too long. nice to see some of the same old faces here still giving the great advice. you guys rock. hopefully ill have more time to get back to the forums once i get all my outside stuff finished. cheers to you all.

lornmastro

I feel your pain cutnroll. I was planning on really working on getting out of the bucket this fall when I lost one of my painters this summer. So I'm right back in it big time. But I think kanadaeh is on to something....I think you need to break the cycle. It soo easy to do what you are comfortable with...painting or being in the bucket and its hard to put your businesspersons hat on or being out of the bucket....at least thats the case with me. But ultimately you need to have qualified people running your crews and I happen to agree with Kanadaeh philosophy of hiring for work ethic/character.Hire someone who wants to learn and wants to work hard and teach them how to paint. Anyhow that my 2 cents....or maybe its just 1 cents lol.