metomeya

People are driving me nuts!

I just gave a quote on a master bedroom, and the couple gave me a werid look.

Then they said "I thought it would just be like 80 to 100 dollars."

I just slapped my head (not really). The worst part is they were way out of the way (i thought they were really close from the direction the wife was giving me, but once I called to clarify I talked to the husband, and it turned out to be way out there).


I think I'm gonna start giving ballpark estimates of a small room and a big room so they can have an idea of what they are getting into. I never did before, cause it never was a problem before. I think the economy in this area is in a big slump.

Anyone else give ballpark estimates before you spend all that time going out there?

PlainPainter

$80 to $100? What exactly was the estimate for, spotpriming a stain in the ceiling? I no longer give detailed quotes and estimates to people - especially since they could share it with other contractors without my knowledge - I have lost a bunch of estimates this way, they share 'my' information and then the contractor does it slightly cheaper. Set some ballpark figures - if they're interested, they'll bite and then you can spend more time to write something. One friend of mine said he will only be doing "time & materials" - because he is losing his shirt competing with other contractors - basically if they don't bite, it's onto the next customer. I have done a bunch of time and materials contracts and gave them a really wide estimate of what it will cost. I have found I am only happy working with people where money isn't a concern and they value my service and craftsmanship. Customers where money is a concern are rarely customers that can or will appreciate higher levels of craftsmanship.

-plainpainter

metomeya

Exactly, I was doing like 4 out of 6 walls in there master bedroom, and it was raised ceiling. That just really pissed me off. I could be making more money like that daily at a normal job.

George Z

One in three is good for us.

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wackman

First off let me say were not a painting contractor so it might be apples to oranges but lately it seems that we've been getting over 50%, which has me wondering why so many. It could just be a good patch of customers or it could be the changed housing market.

I think lots of people who made a lot of equity over the last 5-10 years and were thinking about selling and buying a better home are now scared of selling and buying and instead doing some remodeling. I think that would mean most of the remodel contractors around here would be doing more business and that would explain it.

I too am not happy with the bidding process and am searching for a better way to wrap up deals without doing all the work until I know they're not just tire kickers, but I haven't found anything that works yet.

PlainPainter

I have heard from other sites from someone who is really good with marketing that if you are winning more than 60% of your estimates - then your prices are too low. His analogy was if there was a salesman selling lexus cars for 10 grand - it isn't his salesmanship that is winning the customers - it's the low low price. That being said - let's say you are winning 60% of your estimates, who is to say you still aren't cheap?
It could be your price is fair and your sales is ok - but for the same price with excellent sales you could win an even higher percentage? In which case your prices again are low.

I guess running into people like this, is a reality check on how uneducated certain customers can be. One good way to ward off many people like this is to set a 'minium' price for any work you may do.
Maybe something will only take 1-1/2 hours of work not including driving around picking up materials and of course the amount of time driving to meet a customer to talk to them about their needs. Unless they are close or I know the people well - my minimum to walk into someone's home is $300. Set minimums - if you add up all the time of driving around, meeting with customers, setting up etc. no matter how little the job - you have wasted a day. Put simply would you interrupt your work day on a profitable exterior job for people who don't want to pay at least $300 for you to do some work? My attitude is that any dealings with a customer like this, will set me back one day on a lucrative exterior job - why do it for less?

-plainpainter

Rich Turley

Not a painter. I have never tracked it (I know, I should) but I think 30 to 40% of cold calls off of the yellow pages. But 85 to 90% of the personal referrals close. The referrals are GOLDEN!!

Rich

Boogga

Maybe look at it in another angle. It's probably not your price. I could be the way your presenting your quotation to them. Not in order:

• Are you giving them a comprehensive list of items in the quote?
• Are you giving them a list of references of previous jobs you have done?
• Are you giving them a profile of you and your company with a spill (is this spelt right? ) about yourself? Resume?
• Are you giving a short precise covering letter?
• Are you giving them a clear plain and easy to understand quote?

That's what I give and sometimes more (such as - I'm a GreenSmart (c) Proffessional, So i give out a phamplet to show off with that basically).

My point is: People what to see what they are geting for their money! It doesn't matter whether the quote is for $1000.00 or one million dollars, they want proof and satisfaction that their money will be well spent, managed and worth it! I would!!

All the best, good luck!

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donb1959

Last year I was closing around 50%, but my price was not high enough. Once at sat down with my figures for last year I realized that I hadn't made enough money.

Things are very tight here and the competition is fierce. But I have decided this year that I'm going to raise my rates by 40%. I refuse to take a job where there is even a slight risk I will not make enough of a profit, after having dealt with customers for the past 3 years I have become a little jaded.

I know that my workmanship is above most of my competition, and if they are not willing to pay for that so be it.
I do all this and more.

I used to write the quote from my laptop right on site. I no longer do this. I take my notes on site then come back home to write the quote and I email it to them. It takes too much time to write the quote, go over everything with them on site, only to have done all this to be turned down.

How much were you going to charge to do that bedroom? If folks call now and just want a ballpark on the phone, I tell them average sized room, walls 2 coats, trim 1 coat is $700.00

I'm so sick of customers that believe that paint contractors don't need to eat! For example, I went to a bid Friday of last week, she wanted her kitchen painted 512 sq ft, baseboard, crown, 3 doors/casings, 3 windows, one bay window. This was in a very upscale home. I gave her a price of 910.00 not incld. materials. Now as we were walking around she was telling me she was having her floor replaced to closer match her new colors.

She showed me the quote from the floor guys, standard ceramic tile, and install.....1975.54. Now it's going to take them about a day to do this job, same as me. When I showed her the quote she audibly gasped. When I did my followup call she said she had found someone else, probably some one that quoted her $400.00-$500.00 for that room.

I just shrugged, like I said I will not break even or lose money on any jobs this year, I charge what I need to and let the chips fall where they may!

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PlainPainter

Don, if more guys were like you - we wouldn't be tripping over ourselves trying to get jobs. I am with you - my price is my price - if they bite - that's good, if they don't - whatever

PlainPainter

3 days of work at my rate would be $960 - and I will be bumping my rate from $40/hr to $45/hr. Honestly shame on someone that wealthy balking at a paltry $910 for all that work. If that's 2 coats on everything - that is waaaay reasonable. I am charging $900 for 12x13 bedrooms now. You gotta charge - if you don't ask you'll never get.

4thGeneration

Just the other day I gave a estimate for 1765SF of ceilings. I had to move furniture, cover wall to wall with plastic, scrape off all of the popcorn, patch, sand smooth, prime and finish two coats and on top of all of this keep in mind that the walls do not paint so it had to be a clean job. I gave a price of like $3500. They flipped and said it is a simple job and if it were not for their work schedule they would do it and probally take about 2 days. They said they were prepared to go AS HIGH AS $750 because "THEY" would buy the paint. My new slogan is going to be if you want quality and cheap you will end up with cheap quality. These people live about a block from a major river in a exclusive neighborhood.

donb1959

I know, it's rediculous. Do they know how much labor is involved in scraping popcorn ceilings??!! Then to make the sheetrock look good enough to paint??! Then to paint! 750.00 my arse! Then they probably buy Master Hide paint and it takes three coats to cover, damn working for free.

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Ed the Roofer

I look at it as though no one turns down my proposal.

I view it as if I have not provided them with enough value compensation for the monetary consideration for them to have trusted my specifications.

Since I do selective lead marketing and preferential estimating gets done on the more highly qualified requestees for my service, I close at a 52 % rate. If I choose to folow up on some of the less targeted or qualified leads, then there may bew a slight decrease in the closing per-centage.

Ed

PlainPainter

They only wanted to pay you 42 cents per square foot. I charge 50 cents per sq. foot per coat only when I am painting everything else - walls - trim - doors, basically all the prep work of tarping and laying down rosin paper is already in place - and I am leveraging that since it's already there. For two coats like in your estimates with absolutely no patching nor priming I would be up to $1765 - again only because I am piggy backing on all the other work - if I had nothing in there but ceilings to do - and I had to move furniture, tarp like mad tape off the wall/ceiling interface I think it would have to be double so, $3530 - now do all the ceilings have popcorn on them? You would remove 1765 sq. feet of popcorn? Then mud, sand, prime and then two coats of ceiling paint for only $3500????? I would have hired you in a nano second. Some people are just retards - I would have laughed and told them they should be more productive with their time other than wasting a contractors time - and if they could do it in two days - why don't they?
Since when do homeowners know anything about contracting? Did they run a painting business in the past? I would have been deeply insulted.

-plainpainter

AAPaint

Just got off the phone with a lady for an acid stain. I knew I had a winner on the line when she told me she was busting up her own tile because someone wanted $3/sq. ft. to remove it, and she wasn't about to pay that much money for "GRUNT WORK".

So, I go through the call, she wants a full overlay for her entire 1500 sq. ft. house. Cheapest I can sub that is $1 sq. ft. without markup, better guys cost a little more. Then she says she wants the floor scored as well so she can have a tile look.

Then she goes on to say how much cheaper it should be to do this than to tile!!!! I had to stop her there. "Ma'am, acid stains cost more than tile typically. We charge $7 sq. ft. for a basic stain and seal. Adding an overlay and scoring or any artwork will raise the price from there. Our pricing is pretty standard for this type of work if you look online" and her answer "I saw it online for $3 sq. ft. and tile was only $5"

I told her good luck. What she is asking for is closer to $10 sq. ft. on the low side.

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-AAPaint

AA Quality Painting & Pressure Washing LLC
Jacksonville Painters
Jacksonville, FL.

Brian

My overall closing rate has been right at 40% for the past 9 years. Certain lead sources-- repeats and referrals-- are higher.

Brian Phillips

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AAPaint

Oh yeah...closing percentage. Mine's about 35% on avg.

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-AAPaint

AA Quality Painting & Pressure Washing LLC
Jacksonville Painters
Jacksonville, FL.

Nathan

My goal was to close 30% but I closed around 40% usually. I had a sales guy who worked for me and he was closer to 20-25% using the same prices, sales materials, and so on.

Does that make me a good salesman or a bad trainer?

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Nathan

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

Ed the Roofer

No Nate,

That makes you the owner.

Who else has as much vested in making the sale?

Ed