Waterborne Cabinet Paint Questions

 
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Old 12-24-2017, 02:00 PM   #1
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Waterborne Cabinet Paint Questions


Hello,

3rd generation cabinet maker here. Grew up in a family construction business. I picked up on the things I liked and got really good at them. Fine carpentry being one of them.

With all that said, I'm being forced to change from oil on on-site cabinet/built in finishing. I'm used to spraying oil based paints, and lacquers but as I stated, younger customers are really pushing me away from using them in their homes. A current customer was out of town when I painted one built in with oil. She didn't smell it so it was ok, but she doesn't want oil used while she is living there. And she wants the product to be as tough as the oil I used.

I can guarantee that the oil paint I use will be tough as nails and not mar but I cannot do the same for waterborne because I have very limited experience with the products.

Ive logged over 40 hours reading on this forum and the painttalk forum trying to decide which products to try first. Ive read good things about breakthrough, but then ive read that it changed and isn't as good. Ive read that isnsl-x is good but mars easily. Ive read that some really like the sw emerald and some hate it. Ive read about msa and about pi acrylic. Ive also read about the pi waterborne urethane.

Its not easy for me to acquire ben moore stuff. I can, but I have to drive a hot minute to get someone who sells it and knows it.

I use SW pretty much exclusively for my wall and trim paint. Service is good and its readily available being the reason behind that.

So, what do yall use. What have you used and didn't like, what have you used and wouldn't use again.

I apologize for the long post, but I wanted to try to get it all said asked and explained in one post.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and for any and all help.

Will
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Old 12-24-2017, 02:10 PM   #2
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Re: Waterborne Cabinet Paint Questions


Seeing as SW is easy for you to get;

Kem Aqua Plus

Pre-cat WB epoxy

Pro Classic water alkyd

Tom

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Old 12-24-2017, 02:24 PM   #3
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Re: Waterborne Cabinet Paint Questions


What Tom said, and happy reading.

https://www.google.com/search?q=site...hrome&ie=UTF-8
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Old 12-24-2017, 03:04 PM   #4
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Re: Waterborne Cabinet Paint Questions


BM advance.
Disadvantages: Performs best applied at 80 degrees and low humidity.
Takes a month in similar conditions to fully cure hard.
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Old 12-24-2017, 03:49 PM   #5
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Re: Waterborne Cabinet Paint Questions


Tom, Ive read lots and lots of posts made by you. In fact, kem aqua was unknown to me till I started googling and found an article to search for you. With that said, is kem aqua job site friendly. I can somewhat control heat/humidity, but the door the family uses the most is in the room where I'm working and they have three teenage kids who don't know how to keep it shut. Ill have to buy a turbine hvlp as I don't intend to drag my shop compressor to a jobsite. Do you have any reccomendations on which to buy. Ive looked heavily at the Apollo and the titan cap spray.

Ive used lots of pro classic oil and have pretty much mastered it, but the smell is the reason I cant use it. Is the wb alkyd as tough as the pro classic oil when cured? In this particular house, durability is key

Xtrememtnbiker, Thanks for the link, ill read it as soon as we are back from Christmas eve services.

Golden view, The advance would be an option but I cannot match those conditions and I definitely cant get this family to leave it alone for a month.
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Old 12-24-2017, 03:51 PM   #6
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Re: Waterborne Cabinet Paint Questions


Also, I'm matching a set of built ins that are already in place. The previous built ins were stained originally and some yahoo put latex on it at some point.

Once I get the latex/oil dealt with can I use bin and then go from there with the aforementioned products?


Thanks again for the responses, they are greatly appreciated.

Will
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Old 12-24-2017, 04:32 PM   #7
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Re: Waterborne Cabinet Paint Questions


What primer are you using? For kitchen cabinets I was always using SW Problock oil and still will when refinishing existing cabinets.
For new work I have tried and like SW Premium Wall and Wood primer, it hides, sticks, and sands nice and fills the grain somewhat. I think it is their best latex primer.

For finish I have been using SW Proclassic, usually semi gloss, but I find it takes three coats for a nice uniform rich finish. I have yet to try the new SW Emerald urethane finish, I saw some after is was applied and I was less than impressed but it could have been the painter and not the product.
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Old 12-24-2017, 06:52 PM   #8
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Re: Waterborne Cabinet Paint Questions


I use problock oil but did try problock latex with good luck once.
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Old 12-24-2017, 07:08 PM   #9
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Golden view, The advance would be an option but I cannot match those conditions and I definitely cant get this family to leave it alone for a month.
I turn up their heat to 74 for a day, that's enough. Or set up a heater and dehumidifier. After a day or two it's dry enough to use, and similar to latex paint, but takes a long time to reach full cure.
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Old 12-24-2017, 08:35 PM   #10
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Re: Waterborne Cabinet Paint Questions


Kem Aqua is not available in many SW locations. I can not get it in NJ
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Old 12-25-2017, 07:56 AM   #11
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Kem Aqua is not available in many SW locations. I can not get it in NJ
Not sure where you're located in NJ.here is one of the stores that will handle and custom blend it.

https://www.sherwin-williams.com/sto...ington/nj/4350

The store I deal with will ship it to you FedEX if necessary.

Tom
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Old 12-25-2017, 08:09 AM   #12
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Re: Waterborne Cabinet Paint Questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by zukinut View Post
Tom, Ive read lots and lots of posts made by you. In fact, kem aqua was unknown to me till I started googling and found an article to search for you. With that said, is kem aqua job site friendly. I can somewhat control heat/humidity, but the door the family uses the most is in the room where I'm working and they have three teenage kids who don't know how to keep it shut. Ill have to buy a turbine hvlp as I don't intend to drag my shop compressor to a jobsite. Do you have any reccomendations on which to buy. Ive looked heavily at the Apollo and the titan cap spray.

Ive used lots of pro classic oil and have pretty much mastered it, but the smell is the reason I cant use it. Is the wb alkyd as tough as the pro classic oil when cured? In this particular house, durability is key

Xtrememtnbiker, Thanks for the link, ill read it as soon as we are back from Christmas eve services.

Golden view, The advance would be an option but I cannot match those conditions and I definitely cant get this family to leave it alone for a month.
Very job site friendly. Make a mistake, 30 minutes later you can sand it out and shoot over. 24 hours, the parts are in service.

The Apollo is a nice unit, I have a Fuji. Look into the Graco Triton. 0.8 and 1.0 are the nozzle/needle sets I use the most.

Once cured the alkyd water is as hard as the oil.

I don't use any oils, the latex primers of today are far superior than any oil. If you're using KA+, use the Surfacer, if you're using a paint use Insulx Styx or SW ProBlock latex. Wall and Wood over the other primers if you need to sand baby a$$ smooth, I have not found a fine sanding primer.

The WB pre cat epoxy leave a nice finish. A little more odor, but coalesces much quicker than some of the other products.

Tom
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Old 12-25-2017, 08:45 AM   #13
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Re: Waterborne Cabinet Paint Questions


Travis, I found your thread on your first cabinet/built in thread. I can't see the pictures but it was very nice reading it. I took over the family business a year ago in October. I don't want a large crew like Dad used to have so I do lots of fine finish carpentry and small remodels. If I have my way, I'll never do another addition again. My dad once has 30 guys working for him, he was a glorified babysitter I always thought. I like getting my hands dirty.

Tom, by trade I'm an electrician, that's a long story but it's cool that you are as well.

Should I skip the hvlp setup and go straight to the aaa? I don't mind spending money on good tools, it's always cheaper to buy nice once rather than buy cheaper a couple times.

Is there a better way to deal with the latex over oil than my method of get as much loose off, sand, bin, prime, topcoat?
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Old 12-25-2017, 09:06 AM   #14
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Re: Waterborne Cabinet Paint Questions


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Originally Posted by zukinut View Post
Travis, I found your thread on your first cabinet/built in thread. I can't see the pictures but it was very nice reading it. I took over the family business a year ago in October. I don't want a large crew like Dad used to have so I do lots of fine finish carpentry and small remodels. If I have my way, I'll never do another addition again. My dad once has 30 guys working for him, he was a glorified babysitter I always thought. I like getting my hands dirty.

Tom, by trade I'm an electrician, that's a long story but it's cool that you are as well.

Should I skip the hvlp setup and go straight to the aaa? I don't mind spending money on good tools, it's always cheaper to buy nice once rather than buy cheaper a couple times.

Is there a better way to deal with the latex over oil than my method of get as much loose off, sand, bin, prime, topcoat?
The AAA has a learning curve with water borne finishes. They're nice, but I still prefer the HVLP or the Triton.

I wash with Krud Kutter, scuff sand, wash, fill, prime, fill, sand, prime, sand, top coat.

Tom
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Old 12-25-2017, 09:36 AM   #15
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Re: Waterborne Cabinet Paint Questions


The built in that is already there has been painted with latex over top of stain, do I not need to sand that down as much as possible and then bin it?

Is it true that the kem aqua must be bought in 5 gal pals only?

Thanks again for all the help and merry Christmas.

Will
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Old 12-25-2017, 09:50 AM   #16
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Re: Waterborne Cabinet Paint Questions


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The built in that is already there has been painted with latex over top of stain, do I not need to sand that down as much as possible and then bin it?

Is it true that the kem aqua must be bought in 5 gal pals only?

Thanks again for all the help and merry Christmas.

Will
Clean and scuff sand. Check for imperfections and fill them.

I don't use BIN.

No.

Where are you located?

Tom
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Old 12-25-2017, 11:44 AM   #17
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Re: Waterborne Cabinet Paint Questions


I'm in east tn. A sw specialty coatings store is a 1.5 hr drive northeast or southwest. Local store that I frequent has excellent customer service but they know nothing about the kem aqua.
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Old 12-25-2017, 12:21 PM   #18
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Re: Waterborne Cabinet Paint Questions


Is it possible to lay kem aqua with an airless? I have the graco ultimate handheld. Was just thinking if it's doable I could use the profit from this job to purchase a nice hvlp rig. Just a thought and nothing more.

Thanks again for all the help. Wish y'all were closer so I could thank you in person.

Will
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Old 12-25-2017, 02:41 PM   #19
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Re: Waterborne Cabinet Paint Questions


I've read the caulk/no caulk threads, but what do y'all do personally? Sometimes raised panels could use some caulk, and sometimes a wall is way out in different planes and getting an exact fit for is almost impossible due to not being able to put it in and it needs a small caulk joint to the wall.
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Old 12-25-2017, 09:41 PM   #20
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Re: Waterborne Cabinet Paint Questions


Quote:
Originally Posted by zukinut View Post
Is it possible to lay kem aqua with an airless? I have the graco ultimate handheld. Was just thinking if it's doable I could use the profit from this job to purchase a nice hvlp rig. Just a thought and nothing more.

Thanks again for all the help. Wish y'all were closer so I could thank you in person.

Will
It can be done, but not for the faint of heart. I don't recommend it at this point.

Tom

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