Tips On Bidding

llih

Hi New to site. I have a home improvement business (mostly patio construction). A client that I finished a patio for wanted me to paint several rooms in her house. The job would also include faux graining a 4x14 ridge beam that was painted white. It sets about 14 ft off the floor. One of the rooms is a sun room with many windows. I have never bid on just a paint job. I am in Calif. What would be the best approach on bidding something like this? Is there a general sqft price (labor & materials) for just wall area including windows? Should I figure the beam at T&M ? Any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks

farrellpainting

If your not going to be doing much painting in the future then just sub it out.You'll probably lose your azz on the first few bids you do anyway you approach it, unless the customer feels comfortable letting you do the whole job T&M, then you can make a record of hrs/piece for the next bid.Experience is the only way to figure out estimating!

llih

Thanks, I understand where your going Farrell, but I would like to have some idea of where to begin and not just lose my azz. This lady was burned before and I would like keep her as a client. I would like to know what the average sqft price is for painting some interior walls with a satin enamel?

4thGeneration

If you want to keep her as a client then do not do the painting. Realize your strengths and work toward them. What would you think about me being a painter and looking to keep my client happy by contrcuting their patio? Would not seem a good idea would it? Also, if she has been burned before do not make it two times if you are not familiar with painting. The reason we say this is because it does not seem like you paint very much and if you try and learn with her as a modle you will end up in a mess. I know its not the answer you want, but what I charge you can not with a straight face just as I do not know how to do what you do and would not consider a home improvement guide and a price in my head would make me qualified.

llih

No offense guys, but you are assuming incorrectly that I have never painted before. It also seems to me that you are afraid that someone who generally does other types of work is somehow unqualified or may become a competitor. I thought this board was supposed to be helpful to people in all the building trades. Now if one of you guys wanted to build a patio/deck either for yourself or a client and wanted to know how much a sqft to bid for it or how to construct part of it, I would never hesistate to offer assistance or knowledge. It's called professional courtesy. All I was asking for was a general figure, to compare to what I was feeling the job was worth. Obviously you guys feel like it is supposed to be some closely guarded trade secret. The really ironic thing is that I found the information here and at other sites. I guess the cat is out of the bag.

PressurePros

And here I thought I was going to read tips on bidding instead of the same old questions about it. (no offense to original poster)

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Ken Fenner
Pressure Washing PA
Roof Cleaning Services PA

KellyPainting

"No offense guys, but you are assuming incorrectly that I have never painted before. It also seems to me that you are afraid that someone who generally does other types of work is somehow unqualified or may become a competitor."

No it's just that if you were someone who does it every day, then you'd have the bidding down... by asking how... your just showing us that you do not do it every day.....that alone scares me.... you said....
(I have a home improvement business (mostly patio construction).

Were not worried about competition...we get more work fixing stuff that others guys do as it is....It's just that every newbie to the site wants to know the "secret" to perfect bidding....there is no secret..you just do it for years.. the wrong way.. until you learn it the right way,by your mistakes.
We are not being mean we are just saying that you are not qualified as a professional painter, who does the work ever day, who can handle such a project. Bidding is a part of that knowledge. Are you really saying that you have all the knowledge to pull this off... just somehow thru the years of painting you never got the bidding part down?
We are here to help...and we will... I still learn stuff here all the time.

there is also a D.I.Y section for for guys that are "Doing It Yourself" like yourself....

llih

Yeah Kelly That was real professional and insightful. Thanks for the laughs guys! I got what I needed, thanks anyway.

Brian

llih,

Pricing per square foot (floor space) is an invitation for disaster. The size of the floor tells us nothing about what is being painted.

Since you have some painting experience, figure out how long each item will take. Then add up all of the times, multiply by your hourly rate, and add materials. Don't forget to include prep time, clean up, set up, etc.

Instead of looking at the entire project, look at each individual component. You have a much more accurate estimate.

Brian Phillips

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Houston Interior Painting
Houston Exterior Painting
Houston Painting Contractor

4thGeneration

Not at all worried about competition because I have been offering the lifetime system for all repaints for years. I tell customers to always give me a call with anything that does not look right or does not hold up because I do it right the first time. As far as losing a price to a guy who does not know how to bid they can have that person. Not interested in those types. The only thing I do not like to do is give a person a prayer and a figure to shoot to a homeonwer. If you have been painting a while you know how long it takes per item to paint. You should know production rates if you have guys working for you. Everyone is capable of different rates as well as quality does comes into issue. You do not want to screw something up and have to make it right because that will ax all your profits. You seem happy to have been given a puff the magic dragon number to hand to a homeowner and thats great. I pray you learn the hard way early so it does not cost you on a big job down the road because even us who do it day in and day out loose on jobs here and there. If it is just you doing it you have a greater margin for error when it comes to not doing it as fast, but still can mess it up if you do not address the problem correctly. I hope you can use some of this, but if not print it and make it useful in the toilet.

slickshift

The best approach (IMO) is to estimate how long it will take you (by using your production rates)
Then multiply that by your hourly rate
Then add in estimated materials

There is no general sq. ft. price that takes these variables (your costs/production) into account

There are a few on the board that use sq. ft. numbers, but those numbers wouldn't work for you, and personally I don't recommend using that method
Maybe new/commercial it works OK, but it doesn't take nearly enough variables into effect with occupied re-paints

T & M can mean two things
"Figure" T & M can mean the method I mentioned above
I'd suggest this for pricing your project

T & M can also mean "Charge" the customer T & M
I normally don't recommend this, as usually the customer and /or the contractor ends up unhappy
For an odd or unusual part of a job, I wouldn't mind doing it
But for a faux beam, I'd want to price it

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ModernStyle I have never used this crap before and I pray to the paint gods that I never have to use it again, I would rather use Behr

slickshift

Exactly
Then add them up
That's how I do it

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ModernStyle I have never used this crap before and I pray to the paint gods that I never have to use it again, I would rather use Behr

Brushslingers

I price by square wall space, however for the beam... even I estimate by time. I'd have to agree with B and Slick... in your case, just price it all by time... practice on your garage for instance, and time yourself... then you have a baseline to start.

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Benn

llih

Thanks Brian, I was talking about a price per sq ft of wall area. As I said, what I was looking for was a general figure that was pretty much accepted for residential repaints. I figured the job using your method to begin with, but I thought it would be good to use another method by someone more experienced as a comparison.
It's interesting that most here are afraid to say "I usually get $X.XX/sqft of wall space for repaints." Now I understand each and every job is different, business overhead is different, and the skill level is different, but I would hazard a guess that if each residential re-paint job was figured on a wall surface footage, an average price figure could be arrived at. At least a price range. Not that you would use it to figure each and every job, but just as a basic guideline. I have visited most of the other construction trade related boards and none seem to have the desire to keep bidding information to themselves like this board. I did a search here and on the web, I found the info I was looking for. I didn't come here for a lecture, to be talked down too or to start an argument. Brian, I appreciate your non-condescending attitude and genuine desire to be helpful.

Thank you everyone else for your opinions and less then insightful responses.

Brushslingers

Well, there are hundreds of threads here that deliver your requested info... problem is all areas are different. My square doesn't match others... but, I charge .78 per square foot for one coat, half that again for the second coat, 1.25 per linear for trim, 100 per opening for doors/windows. That may, or may not work for your area....

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Benn

tcleve4911

Look at the small jobs as full day/ half day. Not by sq ft or hours.
Grab a paper & pencil & write down all the steps it will take you do do this job from start to finish.

Admin- time to meet with customer & land the job
Material run
Job site set up (staging if needed)
Demo
Flashing
Feathering in shakes
Caulking
Trash removal
Clean up

Figure your materials & mark them up 30% to cover handling & overhead
Now associate how long - 1/2 day / full day
Do it step by step & you'll at least get closer
You will make mistakes - it's okay - you'll learn
The biggest mistake you will ever make is this business is to try to match prices or underbid other contractors.
Never mind what other people charge - know what you need to charge to make a living so you can be there in the future for your customers.

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Back in Maine
Dubbin' Around
Doin' good stuff ......

llih

WOW, While I was typing many more of you have responded. Thank you Slickshift , Brushslingers and tcleve4911 for the professional type of responses I had expected and wanted. I appreciate the advice. I did price it by time and materials.
Thanks
Best Regards to all