Time And Materials

KellyPainting

Was just reading another thread and was thinking...
When can you get away with time and materials?
I've never bid that yet, but would love to sometimes
at what level has everyone done it..?
Just on large commercial?
just on stuff to big to bid?
Has anyone ever done it on smaller jobs...
how about on new construction?...I got to do my buddies house soon
and would love to bid that...
whats your success rate at landing jobs bid with just time and materials?

Forry

I Give clients or GC's the option, and don't really mind either way... But NEVER do a t+m estimate with a cap on it.. It's a lose-lose contract.

slickshift

Mmmm....it depends what you mean

I use the estimated T&M method to arrive at bids
Repaints, I don't think sq. ft. cuts the mustard

You mean say to the customer, I'll just charge you x per hour plus materials?
I've done that before, I don't recommend it
It often doesn't end well for one reason or 6 others
I don't do it anymore

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Originally Posted by ModernStyle I have never used this crap before and I pray to the paint gods that I never have to use it again, I would rather use Behr

KellyPainting

Now explain the difference.... loose loose.. cap?
I've been in business for a few years, just never touched on this
I've tried to mention it a few times but it freaks people out.

slickshift

I'll do it for $X an hour, not to exceed $***

Def. veering into the bad idea lane
Yeah, customer loses, contractor loses, no one leaves happy

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Originally Posted by ModernStyle I have never used this crap before and I pray to the paint gods that I never have to use it again, I would rather use Behr

Forry

When I do a t+m estimate, it's just that... an estimate... I state clearly in the contract that actual cost WILL vary, and make sure that the client understands that the #'s are guesses based on experience. At my desk, I figure what I think it'll cost for materials and how long I think it'll take, and add a bunch 'cause I'm usually wrong. If the client prefers a firm bid, I take those same numbers and add @ 20% to cover my a$$. Lot's of folks want an estimate with a cap on it so they know what the worst case scenario is, but I don't do it, EVER! If they want a worst case, they can have a firm bid and pay the price for the finished product. No variance. Even if we have a great quick no problem slam dunk of a job, still full price. T+M is good for clients who like to pay for what they're getting, and want it to be fair for everyone. NOT for people who want a cheap job. T+M leaves room to get things done just as well as you want to without a time or budget crunch. I like it, but only with the right client.

Also with T+M, I make sure that the client understands that it's going to cost alot more than they want it to, and take a long time. If we do better than that, everyone's happy lol.

Richard

First off, your customers will need to know and trust you to be a fast, efficient worker to even consider doing this.

I have had quite a few times where T&M came into play. The ones I run into the most are touch ups or punch list type jobs. You know, the type where the HO has 100+ areas to be caulked, touched up, repaired, painted, washed, etc and are getting ready to put their place on the market....they last forever, especially big homes

I made (no lie) about $5000 on one job going back to the same house over a 2 month period. All T&M.

KellyPainting

Ya, but if your bidding anyways.... then adjusting if you have too,
then your actually just bidding the job aren't you?
I thought time and materials meant this:

O.K you pay me x amount of dollars a day... my helper x amount of dollars
I'm guessing it will take 6 days or so, You can give me a check for three days to start.... or if it's a bigger job, then pay me weakly.

I hardly ever adjust my bill unless, there are extra work that the H/O
wants done that is not in the bid...(I Love X-tra's)

Richard

Kelly

My definition of T&M is just that...time and materials. I keep track of my time and leave the paper on the HO's counter. If I purchase anything small I'll pay for it and give the HO the receipts. If it's bigger, they typically give me a credit card.

End of the job or weekly I tally up my hours, multiply by my rate and add receipts.....then

I get paid

lornmastro

Use to do t and m with a cap and have changed to just giving a proposal with a total $ amt. It is a lose lose situation charging t & m with cap, if you estimate well you get paid for the hrs you worked and if you didn't you lost out on the overage hrs. so its actually a break even/lose situation...plus i think a total charge doesn't sound as bad as saying i make $50/hr...i have done better just giving total charges.

Woz the Painter

Well just so we all know lornmastro not to long ago did'nt know what T&M, oh I'm sorry t&m even meant.

The reason you would go T&M is if your doing something like stripping wallpaper or stripping wood, where you have no clue as to how long it will take, or you have a client who tells you I dont really know what I want, so just work with me.

I myself would much rather work on a per bid basis, if i know exactly what the client wants, then i won't be nitpicked if I leave 15 minutes early one day and if I finish the job with a bid ahead of time, the money is mine.

But if your working on stripping 10 coats of paint off of woodwork, or working for a client who is clueless, then T&M is the only way to go...