Time/Material Bill Complaint

WarnerConstInc.

I think he is working it the other way, if you know what I mean.

Mike Finley

How relevant this is.

I met a wealthy man this weekend in a social setting. He finds out I'm in construction and has to tell me all about his latest project and the sour experience he went through. He hired somebody and for whatever reason he lets me know it was hourly (T&M), long story short was he was shocked at how much it came to, thought he had been ripped off based on the final bill.

Basically my conversation consisted of telling him he got what he deserved. He asked why I thought that and I told him, T&M in remodeling means he hired somebody who can't even figure out how much it costs to produce his service that he does 5 days a week, so he falls back on hourly like an employee putting all risk on the employer/homeowner, I said what do you expect when you hire and agree to something/someone like that?

He agreed, said he's hired many people over the years but this was the first time he was approached with this set up and would never agree to it again. He thought it strange but wasn't sure since he had never been approached with the arangement before.

Tinstaafl

Mike, you preach a good line and for the most part I'm right in there with you.

But this is off base. If I perceive a possibility, no matter how small, that the job will run over normal costs, you can bet I'm going to bid it way high, just to CMA. But if the job turns out to be "normal" after all, it would be totally unethical and immoral to take the poor guy for a heck of a lot more than the job turned out to be worth.

In a case like that, the fairest deal for both client and contractor is T&M, with a "not to exceed" price. The latter gives the client a modicum of assurance that you're not just going to dog it in order to get way more than the job is actually worth, while giving fair warning that the cost could be more than initially expected.

NAV

Repeat business and word of mouth business. the customer feels like they are getting the best possible price. My hourly rate has my profit already figured into it. Sure I could put a hard number on it but it will be at the high end of my time and material number, I make a ton of money on that job but I am risking the homeowner feeling like they didn't get their moneys worth.

I feel that when you are working as a residential contractor you have to build relationships with your customers. communication and trust will pay off with referrals. It is 100 times easier to close a referral sale than a cold call.

don't forget, if you crush the job and finish quickly you can always charge the time it took to pickup materials to make more money. The homeowner usually wont have a problem with that.

WisePainter

ha, ha.
I usually request from the HO that I be able to remove a test spot to assure that neither of us will be hosed at the end.
This is a tough question to propose and I usually only do it when I am a shoe in for the contract. Only a couple of times have I run into a nightmare and it usually when the paper is over that ancient brown paper drywall from 32 B.C.

Otherwise, I don't bid a lot of wallpaper removal jobs (by choice).

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My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

Mr. Mike

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Commercial Painter KY. Residential Painter Louisville Painting Photos Louisville

outsidethelines

I bid a job that included wallpaper removal that I am working on now. When I bid it, I provided a straight bid for the painting part and T/M for the wallpaper removal and wall prep. I explained to the HO that there is no way to know what is under the wallpaper. I told her how long I would expect the work to take if only one layer, providing a possible time frame with no firm commitment. I explained worst case scenario, and I provided an hourly rate. So, I get into the job and see there are multiple layers, paper over painted paper in some areas, areas where wall repair was done over paper and some really ugly looking walls. Almost every worst case scenario. But, it was ok. I am covered, and she is not upset because I explained ahead of time what could come up, so she was mentally prepared. Best of all, I told her it may take a couple days, and it took a total of two days to remove the paper. The only thing going over is the wall prep. She is happy and I am making good money. Can’t beat that. No “not to exceed” and no firm bid. Just T/M with a detailed explanation prior to.
However, other than situations of the unforeseen, a contractor who knows his/her job should have no trouble providing a straight bid.
Another unforeseen: Exterior painting where you don't know what you will find after the pressure washing is completed. I had one stucco house where the paint came off in huge pieces due to efflorescence that I was totally unaware of based on previous inspection. It had been painted fairly recently. But the previous owner apparently had some hack slap on some elastomeric over a chalky surface just prior to selling. That is where clauses and provisions come in handy.

ModernStyle

On my brothers house when I removed the wall paper I was delighted to find that the drywall seams had never been mudded. Instead there was clear packing tape over the seams. I am still not sure what the drywall screw holes were filled with, it was white but unsandable. No primer or Shieldz under the paper, just glued straight to the drywall. Mold had formed under the paper all around the bathtub, couldn't see it until the paper was removed. I did this job for free, but there is no way I could have placed a bid on it and not lost my ass.

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