Time/Material Bill Complaint

WarnerConstInc.

First, Clauses for unforseen's are a good thing. I just dont think people around here like to see all the if's and and's at the tail end of a contract, it scares them.

If I am digging in to an old house, hacked and patched up apartment, these are the times I have to charge by the hour. Or going in and doing a butt load of little different things all over a house. I dont leave money out there trust me, 55.00/hr keeps all parties envolved smiling.

T&M is a good thing or an evil thing, you just need to know when to whip it out.

rbsremodeling

I have seen every hack job scenario in life. If they did not have a reputable contractor do the work. I know what to charge. It is going down to the studs and being re-done completely in the bid.

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WisePainter

Excellent post!

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My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

Mr. Mike

I agree, there is not one single painting job, paper removal, paint stripping even that I could not work up an upfront price on and make more than an hourly charge.

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Commercial Painter KY. Residential Painter Louisville Painting Photos Louisville

WarnerConstInc.

Trust me Rory, I would much rather bid something and have a set price. I am also a believer in take the mess back to the studs and start over. Most people agree with that approach. 99% of the rentals I do work on won't tear it out and start over (trust me they waste moe $$ than they save), so I have no choice but to bill T&M but, they pay for every stupid trip that I have to make to go get some bull crap thing that I had no idea was broke.

Do I make more on a bid job, most times.
Do I leave a little money left behind on T&M jobs, sometimes.
Sometimes I kill on T&M jobs, I will not sell myself short on a hourly rate.

Isn't any good detailed bid based on materials, # of men working x hours to complete, plus overhead and profit?

In a sense most bids start out that way to begin with.

Mr. Mike

Perfect question, and yes that is the key to figuring out what you need to charge. However I can live with $55.00 per worker hour but I like to get around $90.00 per hour and see nothing wrong with it when I can get $120.00 or more. I do know unless you cheat the customer that a T&M bid is only going to pay X amount per hour at the end of the day. I also think it would be easier to get $55.00 or even $200.00 per hour with an upfront price than with a T&M charge. In fewer words, I think you would lose more jobs by presenting T&M over an upfront price.

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Commercial Painter KY. Residential Painter Louisville Painting Photos Louisville

EIDOL

with no license you are lucky you got payed all she had to do was refuse to pay even if you had a contract to bad she didn't know the law. people like you make it hard on contractors that have a license,insurance and bonding stick with teaching my children are starving

rbsremodeling

I understand completely.

Hmm to a point it might be but I have a price associated with a task. the hours and material may vary, but the pricing remains consistent. Sometimes you make more sometimes you make less. I always make my minimum price 90% of the time

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WarnerConstInc.

Agreed, like I said, when I can I will always rather bid. Sometimes it has to be T&M.

I have several customers that just call, tell me what they need done and all ready know what I will charge them. They also know it will get done in a timely manner and done well.

Those are the same people that if you need money, I can shoot them an email and have a wire transfer by the end of the day.

I have a tendancey to keep those kinds of customers around.

WarnerConstInc.

The people I mentioned above, have me starting to re-do thier own older than dirt house. Went to start doing some drywall work, found a roof leak that turned into a window leak upstairs, that then turned into a stucco leak, and then turned into an insulation plug leak.

I suppose I have a price for this in my head but, if I take my total hours of messing with it including travel time x my hourly rate, I end up a bit higher than my normal set task price. This way it works out for me, and they are still happy.

410tip

I'm licensed/bonded/insured. Have some facts before you start making generalizations.I'm a damn good teacher and a coach. I pay my taxes, pay my bills, and work damn hard. I'm gonna make a generalization too pal, get off your ass and go knock on some doors and maybe you're hack ass will have work.

sparehair

My craigslist price is around 850-900

WisePainter

Wow, 180 degrees from your response to me and others that might do T&M...

buddies much?

gotta love that CL!

or be wary, either one will do.

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My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

rbsremodeling

If you think that you need to re read my post. I almost feel sorry for you at times, based on your responses.


I have a price associated with a task. the hours and material may vary, but the pricing remains consistent. Sometimes you make more sometimes you make less. I always make my minimum price 90% of the time __________________

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WisePainter

No worries, seeing as though your painting knowledge is extremely limited your posts here in the painting forum are easily overlooked...

A+ for effort though!

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My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

BiggSlick

she got a good deal but maybe she was thinking this was gonna cost $1500 or something. i think when doing t&m work you should still give the customer a ball park estimate so you don't run into this type of stuff.

Leo G

If you give them a ballpark figure that is the number they will remember. If you go over that amount then they will feel cheated. I hate ballpark figures. They always want them on the spot, so you are making guesses at a lot of things. There is almost always something to forget when you can't do a slow figure on the job. But I guess in painting it is probably easier to give a ballpark figure. The tasks are very similar from job to job. There are always exceptions.

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Custom Cabinets in Hartford County Connecticut

loneframer

Ballpark figures require the "Ben Dover" estimating format. If I am asked for a ballpark figure I tell them to prepare for Ben Dover.

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NAV

then stop using a postage stamp sized scraper

and if the plaster falls off to the lath I hope your contract reads : -
The scope of work prescribed above is based upon visual inspection, SWC’s professional experience and information provided by owner. No destructive analysis was conducted to provide information as to hidden conditions. Hidden conditions requiring a change to scope of work, to provide the final intended solution, will be handled as a change order.

or stop using a demmo hammer to remove wallpaper


anyway, paper is easy to strip, haven't had a room beat me yet. you got the old brown clay based glue, the easy pre pasted paper, heavy duty commercial paper paste, VOV, and I am sure one guy used contact cement on me. I was able to strip it all in one day with a helper.

Time and material with a not to exceed price. it shows the HO that you know your business. It lets them know that this is not your first time doing a job and that you are accountable for your work.

Steve Richards

I don't get it, NAV.

If you're as sure as you say you are about how long this (or any other) job is going to take...then why not just bid it?

What's in it for YOU to work T&M w/a NTE price?