Time/Material Bill Complaint

WisePainter

mahlere is back to "spark" up some drama...

__________________
My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

Leo G

I totally agree with this. Why would you want to short yourself money that is due to you. The only way it would be a bad thing is if you were milking the job to try to get more money out of the client. Bid jobs are usually higher because you don't know what might happen and have to figure that something will happen that you didn't plan on. T&M eliminates this. If you get the job done in a timely fashion you get paid well, if you have problems, you get paid well.

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Sawdust Follows Me Everywhere

http://lrgwood.com
Custom Cabinets in Hartford County Connecticut

mahlere

nah....i don't even bother trying to make painters think anymore...i'm just pointing out a business philosophy that is one step below 'i'll do it for free'...

WisePainter

lol, we would all be in serious trouble if you two became painters...the thought of competing against you is unsettling.

__________________
My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

mahlere

just do it for free....you'd have all the work...

Leo G

I do paint, well, finish. You know, in a spray booth, no brushes involved. Comes out fantastic.

__________________
Sawdust Follows Me Everywhere

http://lrgwood.com
Custom Cabinets in Hartford County Connecticut

WisePainter

this is the worst process ever thought up...it's lose/lose for the contractor and win/win for the customer...
~mahlere
Sure beats climbing 36' ladders caulking the outside of a two story house when it is 43 degrees outside...

__________________
My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

Leo G

No rain, no snow, and the only wind is 1.6 MPH when I turn on the spray room fan. And it stay light as long as I need it. There's facilities and water and I have my own seat.

I hate finishing. But it is part of the job. Because I can finish I have increased my ability to sell a lot of my woodwork. Most don't want the hassle of having a painter come in after the fact. They just want me in and out. Done.

__________________
Sawdust Follows Me Everywhere

http://lrgwood.com
Custom Cabinets in Hartford County Connecticut

WisePainter

Have you checked out the 395 Graco air assist system?

Dreamy.

My SW price is around $1,600.00

__________________
My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

waynec

No need to apologize but I appreciate just the same. I have one guy that has worked for me for over 20 yrs. Six more with me for over 7 yrs. So I do feel an obligation to keep them busy. However, don't get me wrong, I would be desperate if they left because they know my system and are all excellent painters. You know, one hand washes the other.

Leo G

I have a Kremlin 10.14 coming in today. Should be in the UPS truck right now.

__________________
Sawdust Follows Me Everywhere

http://lrgwood.com
Custom Cabinets in Hartford County Connecticut

NAV

you have to have some idea if you have been in the painting trade for a decent amount of time. What is this your first rodeo!!

Steve Richards

Are you kidding?

Are you sure you'd like to continue with your idea of giving people a "by the hour, not to exceed" figure?

No, (for example) I can't walk into a room that has 2 or 3 coats of wallpaper that needs to be removed, and have the walls underneath prepped and painted...and have any idea how long it will take.

..certainly not a good enough idea to bid the job...and I sure as hell wouldn't be willing to give a "not to exceed" number/price...I'm sorry, but that's just downright stupid.

NAV

seriously?

10 x 15 x 8 room - unknown layers of wallpaper = 16 to 24 man hours
patch the walls after removal = 8 to 16 man hours
paint....well hopefully you can figure that out

so say it will take 25 to 40 man hours of prep. i dont care how many layers of wallpaper there are it better not take you 40 man hours. if it does I know why your HO is mad at you.

WisePainter

what if the paper removes in postage stamp sized pieces, and there is no remedy?

__________________
My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

Steve Richards

..or what if the plaster comes off down to the lath with the final layer or paper?
What if the drywall's full of mold?
What if you have to skim coat the entire room?

Your way is a gamble, Nav.

An unnessecarry gamble for the contractor, and especially bad because the only possible winner is the HO.

mahlere

so to clarify...

"Mr. Homeowner,

we have no idea how to accurately price our work, so here's what we'll do...we'll give you an hourly rate...but we'll guarantee that you will not pay for more than 40 hrs.

it's a great deal for you, Mr. Homeowner. If we are actually good at what we do, we'll finish quickly and you'll get a great discount. We may get done in 20 hours if things go right. And if we run into problems, and it takes us 50 hours...this is the best part...we'll take money out of our pockets to cover the last 10 hours...

We just want to be fair to you Mr. Homeowner...We'll bend over now, can you be gentle? TIA..."

that about cover it?

mahlere

bid high, or do straight T&M with no cap...

410tip

Excellent points gents. Time/Material jobs are a contractors way of insuring themselves a profit on jobs that are not straightfoward.
Examples of time/material situations:
1. Working for a high end General Contractor where everything must be perfect. How many primes and sands will it take?
2.Wall paper removal
3. Stain jobs
4. Painting over stain. How many coats of primer will stop the bleed? Even the best tannin blocking primers don't always do the trick in one or two coats.

*Putting a not too exceed price will either scare the homeowner silly or possibly sink the profits of our ass busting. As long as we work hard and produce a quality product there is nothing wrong with a time material job in certain situations.

Steve Richards

Wallpaper removal and prep for paint is almost always T&M for me.

I'd venture to say it is for most other painters that have run into problems w/it before too.

..and if they've never run into problems with it...they just haven't done it enough times yet.