Surfactant Leaching Virgin

slickshift

Yes it sounds like a bad drive-in horror flick title doesn't it
But really I don't recall running into anything quite like this before, and I'd like some opinions or advice

Went on a call-back today
It was a repaint from two weeks ago
"Funny stains" coming through the paint (BM AV eggshell)

I remembered nothing unusual about the job, and no sealing/priming was needed
As I remember the previous paint was in good shape

I walk in to take a look, and the first thing that hits me is it is at least 70% humidity in there

The walls look fine so far
I walk past the humidifier, which is off btw

They show me the one wall w/the problem
It looks like condensation from the humidifier dripping down the wall

OK, no problem
Here's the thing
It won't wipe off

That's interesting

I wet the cloth
Nope

I go out to the van and grab the Mr. Clean Reach cleaning pad
Nope
Purple 409
Nope
Come to find out they've already tried to clean it

Hmmmmm.....

From what I can gather, the "drips" showed up within a few days after I finished
Perhaps that night or a few nights later
The humidifier is on (at least) nights
I did not get a straight answer as to whether or not they turned it on the first night, by that response I'd say they cranked it the minute I left
I'll say right now, if they turn that thing off in the AM then it gets well over 70% at night in there-it was at least 70% when I showed up

The next few nights after I finished were extremely cold
Down into the single digits
The house is over 25 years old, probably used to be just a summer place
The drips were only on the outside wall


I finally got it to look less worse with plain water and scrubbing the heck out of it
I left it too dry, told them it was surfactant leaching I said I'd come back and re-roll
I also told them they must keep the humidifier off until I tell them otherwise

Re-rolling is not a big deal, it's a small wall, there no need to cut in, it'll take me 6-8 minutes (shame to wet a sleeve lol)

But before I do...
Does this sound like surfactant leaching?
Are there any special prep steps I should take before touch-up?
What do I need to do to prevent this from happening again?

Thanks in advance for any tips, tricks, hints, or solutions

__________________
Signature Quote

Quote:

Originally Posted by ModernStyle I have never used this crap before and I pray to the paint gods that I never have to use it again, I would rather use Behr

JMGP

hummmm...

hopefully I read that correct...

It seems to me that IF it is only on the outside wall and that house is that old there probably isnt any insulation in the walls...

and the humidity that painting a room causes... coupled with the humidifier (most likely) being turned on right after you left caused the wall to sweat... cold wall + warm room+ humidity (moisture on the walls)... most likely (the drips) will start at the top of wall... (heat rises)...

that caused a few moisture runs in the paint BEFORE it had time to cure... and by that happening screwed the sheen up...made it look like wated runs...

Just like if you were to get a few drops of water on the freshly painted walls after shaking your brush out inside...(oops) I think we all done that... you cant wipe it off... you have to touch up...

I dont beleive it is leaching... I just think they need to keep the humidifier OFF for a few days at least...

Joe

oh wait... I just re read your post... the house insnt that old but I still belive my theory with a cold wall

phinsher

sounds like leaching to me, it can come from a few causes, but to me your remedy should do the trick. Turn off the humidifier, have it heated, repaint and let it cure before that humidifier comes back on. If I had to guess the leaching happened the night after you painted it. Usually after a full day that won't happen.
It's happened to me on a few exteriors. When we applied paint late in the day as the temps are dropping, dew formed over night. The next day it looks just like what you described. We Just wiped it down and repainted, all was well.

JMGP

I look at the term "leaching" from moisture from "below the surface...and bleeding through... maybe im wrong...

I beleive this is clearly a moisture on "top" of the surface caused by the humidity level... just like your example from the dew on an exterior...

when water runs down an uncured painted surface it will dilute that surface area and it will look kinda milky... OR you will see the color turn a little lighter than the original color...where the water is or was...

thats why you cant wipe it off... you may have "blended the area in by wiping the area with "more" water...making the problem area bigger and not that noticable... but in reality... theres nothing you can do but re-paint...

obviously you will see this more with certain (darker) colors...

ProWallGuy

I also agree it is not 'surfactant leaching', as nothing is really leaching through, but more of a collecting on top and running down problem.
I agree to repaint it, and tell them to keep the humidifier off for at least 7 seven days, and please sign this release that says you will do so. Thank you.
BTW, this happened in my own bathroom a couple years ago. The other half couldn't figure out how to turn on the fan.

__________________
Wallpaper Hanger St. Louis
Digital Murals Installation

slickshift

Well it sure does look like runs or drips, no two ways about it
But the runs look like a sheen change, rather than lighter/darker/milky
The paint is eggshell, the runs are shiny
The paint color is what I would call a medium-to-light brown

I just got back, I dropped off a humidistat
That thing was up to 72% before I left, and I was only there a few minutes
I told them to call me when it hits 50%
The weather here just took a turn for the warm, and wet
We'll see how long it takes to settle down

72% is really humid
If that's after the thing has been off for 8 hours....

I appreciate all the input guys
No-one thinks I need any special prep except dry that puppy out huh?

Thanks

__________________
Signature Quote

Quote:

Originally Posted by ModernStyle I have never used this crap before and I pray to the paint gods that I never have to use it again, I would rather use Behr

JMGP

I know exactly what you are talking about slick...

I have seen it many times... it is more noticable with eggshell or semi gloss...It takes longer for those sheens to dry than flat...makes it more prone to collect moisture in your situation....and it will change the sheen ..

nothing else needed for this project except proper drying...

AAPaint

Yeah, surfactant leaching is when the surfactants in the paint leach through the surface causing milky stains, or sometimes brown stains that should clean off with water quite easily. The surfactants are supposed to leach out over time, but when something is painted in high humidity or low temperatures the process can occur rapidly and cause an immediately noticable buildup on newly painted surfaces. Like I said, this should clean up easily with water and no effort, and it does not cause a problem with the paint. On exteriors it usually weathers away on it's own as it leaches out.......

__________________
-AAPaint

AA Quality Painting & Pressure Washing LLC
Jacksonville Painters
Jacksonville, FL.

ProWallGuy

Yah, that's because the drips ruined the sheen before it was fully cured.

__________________
Wallpaper Hanger St. Louis
Digital Murals Installation

slickshift

Thank you, gentlemen
Thank you very much

__________________
Signature Quote

Quote:

Originally Posted by ModernStyle I have never used this crap before and I pray to the paint gods that I never have to use it again, I would rather use Behr

Teetorbilt

I had the same problem in the WC adjoining the glass vanity job and the painter was a pro with a few decades of experience. The paint was BM.

In the stuff that I paint, (boats, cars and scoots) we call it a 'blush'. The WC had 3 of them with no apparent origin.

__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

phinsher

It is surfactant leaching, though I admit the term seems a little confusing. Its also called surfactant bleeding and staining, but its all the same thing, caused by the reasons listed above. No further action is necessary, other than painting. Though I would take a wet rag and try to wipe it off if possible.

George Z

I agree with most here, it is external moisture before paint cured.
It happens when people have a steamy shower in a freshly painted
bathroom. It should not be your problem next time,
if you inform your customer.

__________________
Toronto Painters Commercial Painting Commercial Painting Toronto Toronto Office Painters
Painting Toronto Blog

slickshift

Last Monday they called as the humidity went down below 50% (it got cold out so I'm sure the heat kicking on helped)
I dry wiped it, re-rolled, and instructed them not to use the humidifier for one week

As it was just on the one wall and in the top third it only took a few minutes (no cutting in)
The humidity was @ 42% and they claim it didn't get above 55%

I just got back from inspecting it, it seems fine
It must have cured by now so I told them to go ahead and crank up the humidifier

They said they have gotton used to being w/o it and may not turn it on, or at least up, again

Having it off for a week probably cleared up Gramp's TB lol
Sorry, couldn't resist, but I was thinking it could be a health issue
Man it was like a jungle in there

Thanks for all your help!