Stripping old deck finish - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

joedonuts · 07-23-2006, 08:04 PM

Hi, i am looking into bidding on a deck restaining job. The existing finish seems to be a solid stain and is quite weathered. I have to remove the existing finish and apply a semi transparent stain. I am not sure if the existing finish is an oil base or latex based finish here. Does anyone know of a good finish stripper for this job, any help would be appreciated, thank you.

AAPaint · 07-23-2006, 08:27 PM

I swear I just answered this earlier today..... http://www.contractortalk.com/f61/nasty-old-deck-11334/

I notice you say solid stain. You better test this to be sure because you might not get enough up depending on what it is to use a semi-trans on it....

joedonuts · 07-24-2006, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AAPaint

I swear I just answered this earlier today..... http://www.contractortalk.com/f61/nasty-old-deck-11334/

I notice you say solid stain. You better test this to be sure because you might not get enough up depending on what it is to use a semi-trans on it....

Hi AA, you did answer this earlier, i saw that. I checked out the website for the link you showed, the only thing i am concerned about is it seems this stripper is pretty caustic, it could damage aluminum siding ,etc. I was looking for something maybe not as powerful, but just as effective. Maybe there isn't anything like that for this job i guess. I am thinking of using Sherwin Williams stain and sealer remover. I have not used this product before. Have you had any experience with this product?

**slickshift** · 07-24-2006, 09:03 PM

Solid to a semi-trans?
Another good candidate for re-decking

Jon F · 07-24-2006, 09:24 PM

With respect, I am a wood refinisher. Specifically, all I do is restore log homes. But I got my start in college with a biz doing deck refinishing. I've read some of the posts on here about deck questions, what to do, etc. and I'd like to offer some advice.

Stated as positively, and constructively as possible, for the most part, you guys don't have a clue what you are talking about.

That is setting off the red-alert, but hear me out. There are guys out there that specialize in doing just decks, and do quite well. There is very little crossover into painting from wood refinishing. Except we shop together at the paint store. That being said, I read these paint thread, and have absolutely no idea what you guys are talking about......sand once, thin with naptha, wet and dry brush, etc. Too much for me.

My advice, on this and other decks, IS HOOK UP WITH A WOOD REFINISHING CONTRACTOR IN YOUR AREA, AND BOUNCE LEADS TOGETHER!! Original Poster, this job you are considering....this is a nightmare, I don't care who you are. You are going to lose your butt and have a miserable experience. This is a TOUGH job, for anyone. Wouldn't you rather paint some trim? Well, I'd like to tackle this deck, so let's trade!

Please don't take this as criticism, jeez, it surely is not. As I said, there is little common ground between wood restoration and painting, so create a network with someone in your area that can help you. Remember, a guy doing decks is capable of servicing many more customers than a painter, and should always have referrals to spare. I know I always did.

OriginalPoster--if you want a referral in your area, let me know, if you still want help, let me know.

JF

AAPaint · 07-24-2006, 09:50 PM

Those are some mighty harsh words there fife. Wood care is not as complicated as you would like to make it sound, and you're not the only person in the world that understands it. Many paint contractors delve into wood care because, quite honestly, it is simple in comparison to painting.

With wood care you are dealing with a handful of chemicals, many of which painters already use, and a handful of popular species of wood. Stain application is another simple task.

With painting we deal with staining both interior and exterior wood of many different species, oils, latexes, urethanes, epoxies, etc. with thousands of differnt formulations for all types of different substrates from not just wood, but all different types of metal, concrecte and stucco, block, brick, steel, you name it, we cover it. We know more about substrates, their proper preparation, and the right types of products from which there is a myriad to choose that fit the needs of the customer than a wood care contractor could care to understand.
This poster here is talking about an unknown substance...there is no telling how hard that will be. No misinformation has been given. You'll note that in the other thread where two coats of latex are mentioned, the poster is given fair warning how difficult it may be, AND, we're actually discussing which is more cost effective for the customer. In a case where two coats of latex are covering the entire deck, the amount of labor necessary to strip it all and apply anything other than a solid may actually turn out to be more than re-decking it.

If you see mis-information, please correct. Don't just insult our intelligence by saying we "have no idea what [we're] talking about". There are many members on this site that are certified wood care contractors and have been doing this for a while. Next time, try to be more helpful rather than suggest we just hand all of our leads off to you.

**slickshift** · 07-25-2006, 05:15 AM

....I'm still looking for the words naptha and wet brush
You in the same thread Fife?

I honestly don't know what your talking about

Jon F · 07-25-2006, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AAPaint

Those are some mighty harsh words there fife. Wood care is not as complicated as you would like to make it sound, and you're not the only person in the world that understands it. Many paint contractors delve into wood care because, quite honestly, it is simple in comparison to painting.

Great....should have just bit my tongue. Didn't say it was complicated, said it was different than painting and not a lot of crossover. Nothing I said was harsh. This is just a forum, for crying out loud. I'm trying to offer help, while also benefiting two trades.

With wood care you are dealing with a handful of chemicals, many of which painters already use, and a handful of popular species of wood. Stain application is another simple task.

LOL, ...tell that to all the guys that do what I do and try and sub their work out to "painters". We have once chance to get it right, if you paint it wrong, just paint it again! ....And that is the M.O. that leads to multiple coats we are constantly stripping off.

With painting we deal with staining both interior and exterior wood of many different species, oils, latexes, urethanes, epoxies, etc. with thousands of differnt formulations for all types of different substrates from not just wood, but all different types of metal, concrecte and stucco, block, brick, steel, you name it, we cover it. We know more about substrates, their proper preparation, and the right types of products from which there is a myriad to choose that fit the needs of the customer than a wood care contractor could care to understand.
This poster here is talking about an unknown substance...there is no telling how hard that will be. No misinformation has been given. You'll note that in the other thread where two coats of latex are mentioned, the poster is given fair warning how difficult it may be, AND, we're actually discussing which is more cost effective for the customer. In a case where two coats of latex are covering the entire deck, the amount of labor necessary to strip it all and apply anything other than a solid may actually turn out to be more than re-decking it.

...Whatya want to take an IQ test?!? C'mon, you're still upset. I guess you do have to be quite smart to be drunk as a skunk and still be able to cut lines all day

(lame attempt at a drunk-painter joke)

If you see mis-information, please correct. Don't just insult our intelligence by saying we "have no idea what [we're] talking about". There are many members on this site that are certified wood care contractors and have been doing this for a while. Next time, try to be more helpful rather than suggest we just hand all of our leads off to you.

....Your Flood and Thompson's Certifications recognized, I still suggest I was trying to be helpful. My advice is to hand off. Everyone doing wood restoration is trying their darnd'est to eliminate the corralation between WR and painting. Most actually consider WR a facet of PRESSURE WASHING, though WR folks are also trying to move from that. Would you help?

Misinformation?? You are trying to get a guy to bid something that may not be possible. You are suggesting he use the completely wrong kind of strippers (but thanks, I helped formulate the stripper you recommended), you told a guy about a log home in a previous thread that "just do two coats, probably won't take three" when you had absolutely no idea what products he was talking about. The manufacturer suggests three, if not four. It's not even a stain that "takes" as you put it.

I thought I'd receive some support for referring jobs to fellow residental contractors but I can see that may not be the case, so it may be best not to try. Questioner: sorry if any of this was offensive to you, well actually I'm not, I'd rather offend you and keep you from losing money that fluff you into an endless job with an dissapointed customer. Good luck either way.

AAPaint · 07-25-2006, 04:05 PM

You are reading 4 different threads as if they are one, obviously. I didn't suggest any product for the log home (go check), and with the right products 3 or 4 coats is overkill. No product was even mentioned....so that point is moot. What manufacturer recommends 3 or 4 coats, because none was EVEN mentioned??????

Again, on the latex thread. The only thing I said was a full strength stripper, I did not mention any particular product. (go ahead, check that too so we can be on the same page)

Your comments about painters in general prove you're nothing more than an a$$hole that thinks because he does wood care he is somehow superior to a painter. The type of stuff you speak of can just as easily be said for a hack in any trade. However, if you would take the time to actually read the posts and not get the threads all mixed up in your twisted little mind, you would see there are no hacks here, and that NO misinformation has been posted.

You didn't think you'd receive some support from painters. You blatantly insulted my/our (painters) intelligence and then assume that we will be over-joyed to give up our customers. Then, to top it off, you come in and spew further insults about our trade.

As for me, I don't even drink, and don't hire alcoholics. I have one 6 year painter working for me that can not only strip and stain a customer's deck, but paint their entire house in a flawless manner that exceeds today's industry standards. I think it's obvious who was really tippin the bottle in this thread.

Where I mention a safer process AND admit I have no experience with log homes, you suggest "Ahead of time, make sure they are aware water is going to come into their home like crazy."..........GREAT advice!

I must say GOOD LUCK right back at you if you think you'll EVER be getting leads from people by insulting them. Find another forum to insult people and cause a ruckus at.

Jon F · 07-25-2006, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AAPaint

You are reading 4 different threads as if they are one, obviously. I didn't suggest any product for the log home (go check), and with the right products 3 or 4 coats is overkill. No product was even mentioned....so that point is moot. What manufacturer recommends 3 or 4 coats, because none was EVEN mentioned??????

First off, are suggesting I be "banned" for disagreeing with you and a method? Obviously, I'll apologize if the "drunk" joke was that offensive....whew. I'm going to try and respond very cool and politely and chalk up your previous post to a "bad day".....life's too short.

LOG HOME: "no product ever mentioned"...he mentioned it by reference, and I knew what he was talking about. You didn't. You said it wouldn't take three coats. The products calls for three coats. You're advising on something that you don't know about. "right products 3 or 4 coats is overkill" perhaps in your limited knowledge of products that is the case.

Again, on the latex thread. The only thing I said was a full strength stripper, I did not mention any particular product. (go ahead, check that too so we can be on the same page)

You referenced a previous thread where you reccommedned TimberstripPro.

Your comments about painters in general prove you're nothing more than an a$$hole that thinks because he does wood care he is somehow superior to a painter. The type of stuff you speak of can just as easily be said for a hack in any trade. However, if you would take the time to actually read the posts and not get the threads all mixed up in your twisted little mind, you would see there are no hacks here, and that NO misinformation has been posted.

My woodcare (now just LH's) is superior to yours. I can tell that from your knowledge level. Your painting would be off-the-charts superior to mine. Great!! Let's keep it that way!!

You didn't think you'd receive some support from painters. You blatantly insulted my/our (painters) intelligence and then assume that we will be over-joyed to give up our customers. Then, to top it off, you come in and spew further insults about our trade.

You've lost me here. I'll recall the "drunk" joke, didn't think it was that demeaning. Sorry. Seriously. No other insults.

As for me, I don't even drink, and don't hire alcoholics. I have one 6 year painter working for me that can not only strip and stain a customer's deck, but paint their entire house in a flawless manner that exceeds today's industry standards. I think it's obvious who was really tippin the bottle in this thread.

Where I mention a safer process AND admit I have no experience with log homes, you suggest "Ahead of time, make sure they are aware water is going to come into their home like crazy."..........GREAT advice!

See, know this is you just being insulting and trying to put down my attempt at offering advice. How do you know cob blasting is a safer method? YOu've never done it! You say it is expensive?? You don't even know that!! The guy said he is going to wash their house! Was my advice wrong?

I must say GOOD LUCK right back at you if you think you'll EVER be getting leads from people by insulting them. Find another forum to insult people and cause a ruckus at.

(sigh) I didn't insult anyone. Thus far, I am the only one that has given this guy the correct advice on this job which is to PASS. I haven't caused a ruckus. For the things you've said to me, I think I've been more than polite. Don't worry, I'm not out to take your role as the "resident wood expert", I'm just trying to keep some guy from trying to strip an unknown product that looks like paint off of a deck, when it is obvious he doesn't have the experience to do so.

AAPaint, I hope you've adaquately taken out your anger and frustrations for the day on me. If you need to let loose again, go ahead, just don't take it home to the family. I'd far rather you come online and curse at me than to unleash the venom on someone less capable. Peace, Shalom, whatever it is you need to hear to lighten up.

JF

AAPaint · 07-25-2006, 06:06 PM

Yet again.......you know nothing of my knowledge, and can not show where I posted mis-information. None of your advice has been wrong, but neither has mine, and that needs cleared up. The equipment for media blasting is expensive, and not a worthy investment for one job. Where did I mis-inform? I know it's safer because I've done my homework on the subject, are you saying it's not safer for a log home?

So, let's not switch this from an attack on painters doing wood care to an attack on my wood care knowledge, of which, you've seen hardly enough to make any determination.

I don't need ego to run my business. There are many things I still don't know about a lot of topics, and when I don't, you will see me asking. However, we handle numerous wood care projects with ease, and have many satisfied customers to prove it. Matter of factly, we are eventually going to expand our wood care advertising because the work is SO easy in comparison to what we usually do, lol!

You are the one that started in about painters not being able to do wood care, not me. You are the one that suggested we just leave it to someone else, not me. You are also the one that suggested painters just "paint it again" if it's not right, as if we are some lower form of life, or we can't get our work right the first time.

So, you can be Mr. Superior, because one thing I seriously lack in is the ego department.

P.S. Nice try at swapping things to make me look like the one with the "venom".

Jon F · 07-25-2006, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AAPaint

Yet again.......you know nothing of my knowledge, and can not show where I posted mis-information. None of your advice has been wrong, but neither has mine, and that needs cleared up. The equipment for media blasting is expensive, and not a worthy investment for one job. Where did I mis-inform? I know it's safer because I've done my homework on the subject, are you saying it's not safer for a log home?

..you told the guy the wood wouldn't need three coats. That's mis-information. Safer how?? Less chance of dying?? Less damage to the wood?? Safer to plants?? Safer to the enviroment?? "Doing homework" is different than "doing".

So, let's not switch this from an attack on painters doing wood care to an attack on my wood care knowledge, of which, you've seen hardly enough to make any determination.

I NEVER ONCE, NEVER ONCE attacked painters in any way. Painters mean nothing to me. They make my job easier. I refer work to many and enjoy good relationships with them. I sub work to painters, after I teach them how to do what we do. Never did I think trying to get two trades to help one-another would lead to such hurt feelings.

I don't need ego to run my business. There are many things I still don't know about a lot of topics, and when I don't, you will see me asking. However, we handle numerous wood care projects with ease, and have many satisfied customers to prove it. Matter of factly, we are eventually going to expand our wood care advertising because the work is SO easy in comparison to what we usually do, lol!

Personally, I think that is a bad business decision, but I wish you luck in whatever endeavors you pursue.

You are the one that started in about painters not being able to do wood care, not me. You are the one that suggested we just leave it to someone else, not me. You are also the one that suggested painters just "paint it again" if it's not right, as if we are some lower form of life, or we can't get our work right the first time.

So, you can be Mr. Superior, because one thing I seriously lack in is the ego department.

...Beautiful job of displaying that characteristic (or lack thereof, I guess I should say)

P.S. Nice try at swapping things to make me look like the one with the "venom".

[color="darkred"]...You're serious?? Laughable. My points are: 1) Painters consider handing off woodcare to wood guys/ visa versa (network referrals) 2) Wood guys service more customers than typical paint guy due to size of jobs, more opps for referrals for painter, 3) You'd help wood guys develop the niche of a new trade, as opposed to lumping it with washing or painting. Perhaps a poorly-chosen venue on my part to present such a plan,

AAPaint · 07-25-2006, 07:53 PM

Wow, red text...I think I've said enough.

Jon F · 07-25-2006, 08:24 PM

Agreed....I think we've passed the point of where anything good is going to come of this. I apologize to anyone who reads something I said as an insult to them. I especially apologize to the original poster......good luck with whatever comes of this project.

BDA4Life · 07-25-2006, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fife

Agreed....I think we've passed the point of where anything good is going to come of this. I apologize to anyone who reads something I said as an insult to them. I especially apologize to the original poster......good luck with whatever comes of this project.

Come on Jon play nice or they gonna make you sit in the corner!

joedonuts · 07-25-2006, 08:54 PM

Boy did i stir up something here or what? Slick, i have considered redecking this job because of the probability of not getting the existing finish off. I have to believe that there is some product that would be sufficient to remove this finish. I know it will be labor intensive, i have thought of passing it up, but i believe i can get it done. I called Sherwin Williams about their Stain and Finish remover and they tell me they have no complaints of people using it. It's one product i will look into using here.

BDA4Life · 07-25-2006, 09:03 PM

What you have to do is a test spot with some stripper to see how tough the old stain will be to be removed.

Sherwin Williams stripper is a Sodium Hydroxide base stripper by the way.

There has been only a few old stains i couldn't strip but 95% of decks i've come accross i'm able to strip,"solids you name it"

BDA4Life · 07-25-2006, 09:08 PM

Here is an example of a deck with a solid Behr crap product i've stripped.

Michigan Exhaust · 07-26-2006, 02:14 AM

There's Shane showing off again. Now I am waiting for the other big guy Jon to whip out the beautiful log homes he does.

BDA4Life · 07-26-2006, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressure Plus

There's Shane showing off again. Now I am waiting for the other big guy Jon to whip out the beautiful log homes he does.

I would never show off like that Dave!