Joewho

What if you had to stop being a contractor and go to being an employee?

I'm close to doing that and it's killer. I'm getting old, already grouchy, not wanting to do grunt exterior work etc., etc.
But now, I'm thinking about looking for hourly employment. In vegas there is a 15/hr barrier, and I just can't do it for that kind of money.

Finally am driving again, just in time to "drop dead" with the union. Meaning, my card expired and the last chance to pay dues has passed.

So, if work doesn't start coming in, I'll have to go and apply with custom repaints. No way I'm doing commercial for 15/hr. Nothing like being treated as a dumb ass after painting for 23 years. Getting stuck behind a 3 yr. painter because he was there first....lot of worries on my mind.

I know a heck of a lot, but if you come up and ask me, I can't get the information out, or I talk in an unprofessional manner,(in case you haven't noticed). Not my fault. The last company just watched me and let me do my thing. If they liked what I was doing, they had all their crews do the same. That was cool, but the money was....not great. I have a serious problem trying to communicate effectively after I've started working. Once I get into the work, my gift of gab is completley gone. I couldn't answer the simplest question.
Using a forum gives me time to think, edit, edit, edit,.....again, not my fault.
It's just how my brain works, (or doesn't work). If I have to take a written test, I may not know the answers, but I do the actual work correctly. I guess I just worry too much.

any comments, encouragement?

would love to hear what woz says about this.

farrellpainting

It's all about confidence and feelin good about yourself!If your not havin fun and enjoyin yourself, your not goin to do very well, you gotta relax and enjoy what you do!Our president can't articulate, but he loves war!And somehow he convinced people to die for him for no reason?

Have a laugh or two, and maybe f**k some fat girls if your allowed to!

P.S. give yourself the credit that is due, From your post's I cosidered myself inferior.

Rich Turley

Maybe one thing to consider is partner up with someone who has the "gift of gab". Could take a while to find someone, don't just pick anyone, got to be the right guy (or gal)! Just a thought.

Rich

boman47k

I don't understand that. You mean working for others painting? I would consider doing it long enough to drag up and relocate again.

Know what you mean there, Joe. I hate working under someone that is no more intelligent than me. A big reason for wanting to go on my own.

Whoa, don't like the sound of that. Lets just call it frustration.

I know what you mean there ol' buddy. I feel the same way at times. I feel I have a rough edge that comes out or I try to communicate things a little out of sequence,but I do feel the more we attempt something the better we get at it.

Know what you mean there too. Ever notice the edit line on my posts? They are usually edited. By the way, I had much rather people leave me alone and let me get the job done.

My parents did well considering there education, or lack thereof. That being said, they were still bluecollar folks that made it with hard work, determination, and humilty. What I am saying is this bluecollar thing is a family culture like thing. I've always felt in between groups somehow. Don't quite fit in with this group or that one. Its almost like a man without a country. Not sure I want to fit in the group I was raised with. I've seen the errors of that way up close.

What the hell are we doing up this time of night/morning? Could it be you are not the only one that is experiencing anxiety, frustration and/or worry? I'm 52 and wanting to start a whole new career. I'll be okay if I sit home and do nothing, but I need something to do. I have been in a couple of businesses. It gets in your blood whether you do it the professional way and know all the business aspects or not.
Joe, can you not relocate? Enough of my rambling.

Richard

I would go find a company and when I met with the boss, prove to him I know what I'm doing. I would make it my mission to make him trust me before I even pick up a brush. I would let him know my experience with painting, estimating, customer relations, etc. I would then ask for between $20-$25/hr. and recommend myself for a foreman position.

My point, Joe. State your requirements(whatever they may be), hold fast and don't stop until you get what you're asking. Dont expect to just sit back and have it easy though...once you have a boss, it's all about proving yourself again. Since you haven't "owned a company" per say, I would think you'd be asking for around $18-$20 to start...yes, even where you are

What ever you choose Joe, hold firm to what you want/need...period. Good luck and be confident

bill r

Hey Joe,

I have sooooo been where you're at, and I know how it feels.

I am not a painter. My ex-father-in-law is. I acquired an appetite for contracting by admiring him and his 2-man business operation.

He built himself a little niche area within painting that was way better than house painting. His was kitchen cabinet doors. He removed them, wrapped them, brought them home, sprayed them in his back yard, sanded and brushed the frames, re-installed.

Just from reading this forum, I know that straight painting is very competitve. (Low barriers-to-entry.) Why not think about specializing into something not everyone does? Another one is the wonderful two-tone textured feature walls that I've seen in high-dollar neighborhoods. How's about doing epoxy floors. It takes a senior, experienced guy like you to be brave enough to invest in a narrower niche like that. Now, that's your higher-barrier-to-entry, so that you don't have to compete with high-school kids!

I apologize for butting in; just trying to help.

Your ability to communicate is excellent, by the way.

Don't give it up. Specialize!

paintr56

Joe,

I was thinking along the same lines as Rich. Sounds like you might need help with sales. From what I hear Vegas is booming and your post sure say you know what you are doing. Are you generating leads and not converting to sales? Do you know any one that is good at sales but not so good in the field? Any chance of finding some one thst does sales in another trade and paying straight commision. I can say that a good salesman would pay for himself with higher pricing.
Just some thoughts, no matter what you decide I wish you all the luck in the world.
Jim Bunton

MakDeco

Hey Joe,

I have those thoughts also from time to time. I have thought maybe I should pack it up and head back to the hall and just work and not have to worry about nothing but just showing up a being a painter!

I had a terrible Jan this year, got comfortable with my previous winters being great I slacked on my advertising in the fall of last yr and boom no work in Jan. and no leads either. Now I am sitting here with a crap load of exteriors and its snowing out in April! So my point is we all go thru the ups and downs if you can weather the storm then do it, but if you can't then maybe you have to bite the bullet and find a small shop to work for and show your worth more then 15$ hr.

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MAK Deco

Frankawitz

Joe take a step back, you'll be alright there's a place for you don't get down on yourself, I have been scraping small jobs just to pay the bills month to month and in this state we are lossing all kinds of jobs. people are lossing everything here, I would work for the $15.00 an hour intil I found something better, don't let it get to you keep your chin up. I feel for you I turned 50 this year and I still can work circles around younger workers. so what if the kid only has 3 years on the job maybe you can teach him something, but don't let it get to you. take the 15 and work at a slower pace get your 40 hours in and collect your weekly check. Good Luck to you.

4thGeneration

Convince people to die for him for no reason?

HMMMM If I came to your house and destroyed your property I guess you would do nothing about it? Would you have a talk to me and see if I had any special needs? Better yet, maybe you could give me a hug and tell me that I am misunderstood? Too many liberals taking the constitution and turning into a machine of oppression against its own people. I always wonder how people of this country would fare in other countries of a particular religion and express their distaste for that religions way of doing things?

Joewho

Wow, thanks for the replies.
I have something to say about it, especially bowman, but need time to organize thoughts.

boman47k

Let 'er rip, tater chip. Uh, I mean, continue at your convenience.

Brushslingers

Like I said before Joe, I pay extremly high for this area.... I edit very few posts... most of what I say is off the cuff... heh. 150 per day, 75 half day, 0 no work. I'm actually working from behind after a few thefts and etc from last year... but, we are running strong in the first quarter.

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Benn

Chris G

Probably.

You saved my azz a couple of months ago with some very pragmatic advice. Don't be too hard on yourself. Maybe a change of scenery would do you good. Las Vegas can't be the healthiest place for the soul.

Workaholic

LOL Good one.
I agree with this post. I know a couple of painting contractors that do not even know how to paint, they are just great salesman.
Vegas is thriving with some high dollar homes. Take that 15 an hour get back on your feet. Get your vehicle set up. And things will fall into place. You seem to be a experienced painter by your posts, once you get back into the full swing you'll be alright, hell in a few months you will be wondering why you were even thinking about leaving Vegas.

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Sean

Joewho

Well, I'd like to reply to each of you individually, but it would take a heck of along time.

Since I'm the one always bringing up honesty, maybe I should practice it myself. Truth is, since I came to vegas, I lost what little I had. Including credit and bank account. You just get lower and lower, and from down here, it seems like there's a 15/hr ceiling. But, I haven't gone to private custom repaint co.s yet. So, my outlook may be wrong. I might be selling myself short on that issue.

Bowman, I agree with your comments, specially about the blue collar background. You really are a wise man. I appreciate your comment a lot.

Farrell, I know you just like to fool around. I was just that way when I was younger, and it's from the older wiser guys slamming me, that I learned what I know. LOL on the fat girl comment. I'm allowed,, what you talking about? One time, I wouldn't "get with" this chick, so she went and told everyone I couldn't get it up, which was true.....but...but..
And you did nail it on the head, confidence is low right now.

About communication. My best communication is through action. I'm a beliver is what people do, not what they say. I spend a lot of time in the diy fourm. What I say in a whole paragraph, slickshift can say in one sentance. I'm too "wordy". It's easy to see where I screw up, and can't edit. Just look at my proposal in post a quote. The words say superpaint, but you can bet I'll use bathroom paint. That proposal has already gone to the Corp. Office, I can't edit it.

Just being so down, for so long, I've adapted, you have to adapt to survive. I probably have a lot more to offer a co. that it seems from here.

I can't relocate right now. Still need to get my own vehicle. The one I borrowed is from a union carpenter. It pays to stay cool with our other trade brothers.

Slinger, If I could, I'd be there tomorrow. I need more time. Can't wait to see Florida.

Rich, partnering may be an option. Unlikely though, at least not in Dog eat Dog Vegas. And truthfully, I don't want to.

paintguy, there is work for me to do. Was supposed to start a small one 2 weeks ago, for a customer/friend. Real nice guy, but hard to nail down due to his career. We agreed, if I didn't hear from him, I'd bug the crap out of him. So, I left a message on his phone everyday. He called yesterday, his dad died and he had to leave town. Will do the job next week.
As far as proving myself, it's not that hard. When I go to the repaint Co's, I WILL get a job. I won't state my requirements. I'll work for 2 or 3 days with no agreement whatsoever. Then we talk. I'm glad other people see my assets better than I can.

56, I've never had a problem taking 70% of my bids. I don't have a contractors license, bids I get are 99% referrals, 1% Angies List. These people are looking for someone at a disadvantage so they get the prowork for immigrant prices. Self explanatory. I'm good on sales, just when I'm working it's hard to thing in "customer" terms. It's like explaining work to other painters compared to explaining the same thing to a DIY. Totally different and I have to be able to switch gears on a moments notice.

Bill, thanks for the ideas. I've come to accept that I'll never specialize, cuz I just can't stand to do the same thing day in and day out. It's come to my attention (ha) that adhd is a real thing, and I have to live within the bounds of it. I always thought I was a loser cuz I couldn't hang on to a factory job. One day, I'd just walk out and never go back. It's not my attitude, it's the adhd. No one elses problem, and I've had years of education on the issue. It sucks. Thought I was an alcoholic for a long time, but I'm not. It all goes back to being hyperactive and coming from being hit when I was too young to be hit. No hitting folks.

Mak, thanks for your comments. I'll meet you some day. I can't think of packing it in, because I haven't even started here yet. I'm alone, no family, no child support, mortgage or anything, so working a little bit will get me through. It just comes down to starting from scratch. No way in hell do I want to try union production at this point. At least not on the commercial side of it. Vegas has a list, chicago does not. The list is for people who don't have an "IN" with a co. You get on it, wait weeks, get a call, when the job ends you go back on the list. I came here with a supposed "IN" that never materialized. You know someone out here, let me know, I'll go back and pay another 600 to join this union. Be aware that Chicago isn't really on the same page as vegas, union wise. I did contact Tiffininy's corp office in chicago. Didn't get a second glance. They told me they don't paint in Chicago. Is that true?
Anyway, contacted them by e-mail, and that's far from a referral. Got nothing from them. Woz has been a big help on that end. I like woz.

Frank, I'm stepping back man, thanks for the adivice.

Chris, vegas is terrible for the soul. I never realized how geographic location plays a part in that. But I do now. They don't call it the land of Lincoln for nothing. I don't recall what advice I gave, but when you're working, it's not as easy to see things as clear as when you sit on your ass all day and think. Glad I could help.

Workaholic, you got it bud. I'm going to follow your advice, but won't partner with anyone in vegas. I have made a living at sales. I won't support a salesman with work off my back though.

Long ass post, but I had to answer you guys. This town does not give a whit about it's people and I forgot what's it's like to have the support of my peers. I'm absolutely grateful for all your comments. Gives me new strength and a better outlook in a weak time.

Now lets put this thread to bed.

Yours
Joewho

siberian

Good luck Joe,
I meen that in the best way. Being down on your luck is hard. Being honest about it is gut wrentching. Being 50 (Im 49 but broke way too many bones in the past) is beyond belief. The fact that you are in an area where there is work, and so many here seem to really care: man that has to meen something. The fact that your attitue is strong, mind is sharp meens everything. Hang in there.

cutnroller

Joe,

Sorry to keep this going after you put it to bed, but I just had to comment....

I for one would appreciate having someone like you around. I just started my company last year and have a good crew of guys now but I think they could all learn from someone like yourself. Keep your chin up man, you are worth far more than you give yourself credit for.

PS. I have been a bad forum contributer. Haven't been here since December. Then I come back and read a thread like this and realize I have to make more time for this forum. Best contractors forum on the net period. Cheers to you Joe and all the painters that contribute here. You all make a huge difference to so many of us!