Starting A Company - Need Estimating Help - British Columbia, Canada

HowWeRoll

Hi there!

I'm not sure if estimating is based on areas, or if it is just the same all the way around North America? All though I'm sure I would have more luck charging more per square foot somewhere like West or North Vancouver, as apposed to Surrey...

In any case, Could any Paint Contractors please give me a hand with what you charge when doing an estimate on both interior & exterior?

I'm sure this would help other fellow contractors trying to figure out the same.

What I need in particular:

1: Cost per square foot on walls /ceilings etc. Both with Repaints & New Construction.
2: Do you charge extra for closets & ceilings? If so ... how much?
3: Baseboards, crown and chair rail... trim... window sills etc. How much per linear foot?
4: Doors & door frames?
5: What formula do you use for calculating the square footage of a room. Example: Use a 10x10 room. Or 10x12 to explain...

I wouldn't mind knowing the same for exteriors and different types of finishes outside.

How about Concrete tilt-ups or warehouses? Interior as apposed to exterior and vice versa.

Any and all information would be greatly appreciated... both by me and I'm sure others who are starting out.

I do have a rough idea of how to do this, but I want to get it right... like most every one else I have a family to support... and I want to try to do it right the first time.

Thanks a lot!

rbsremodeling

How do you start a company first?? Then learn to estimate after??

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HowWeRoll

"Shakes head" I wasn't quite asking for criticism, I was just asking some simple questions.

We have access to an estimator, but I would rather do some on my own while we start out. I "do" know the bulk of it and have a good idea of what the prices should be, and how to calculate it etc. The more information I have the better though right?

Why not network and leave this type of information for other people who might not know a single thing about it?

rbsremodeling

Can you get the estimator to show you how he does it?? and how he arrives at your prices. That seems to be where i would start

Did mean it to come of negative

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DavidC

The question would be how rather than how much. The answer would be quite a bit more work on your part, but much safer than adopting someone else's numbers.

What would you work for if you worked as an employee for someone else? Does that cover the needs of your family? Consider that to be your minimum wage, but feel free to give yourself a raise if your worth more.

Try to estimate how much it will cost to run your business for a year. This will include insurances, utilities, vehicles, office equipment, dues & license fees, throw in what ever you can think of and add a contingency to help with what you missed. Total that up and divide by the number of hours you will be able to work in that year.

Add that to your minimum wage and change the name to hourly labor rate.

Select a profit range as desired. Many experts tout 8% as the minimum, some claim to operate on much more. This one is truly your call.

Add that to your hourly labor rate.

Consider the income taxes you'll be required to pay. If that's not in there than you better add it in. You should have a close idea now, but be prepared to learn as you go and make adjustments as needed.

With your labor rate fresh in hand, look at each job you are pricing individually. What will it take to get to the job?, setup?, actually do the work?, take down?, clean up and break camp? The number of hours you calculate x your rate + (materials + cost of obtaining/transporting + your selected profit margin) = your price to do the job.

Divide that number by the square footage of a given job and you will have your going rate for that particular job.

You may or may not be close to the "going rate" in your area, but you will be close to what you need.

I strongly suggest that you read Michael Stone's book "Markup & Profit, A Contractors Guide". Following his outline (which is much simpler than mine and easy to understand) I was able to get off the going rate treadmill and start charging what I need to.

Good Luck
Dave

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www.CookContractingLLC.com

frankcanpaint

Any and all information would be greatly appreciated... both by me and I'm sure others who are starting out.
HowWeRoll


Well,I think it is admirable that you have decided to be the spokesman for all those you sure are just starting out and could benifit from your sacrifice.

Of course you want the goods. However, it is not enough just to want to make more money. Or because you have a family since everyone has their cross to bear or because you found a catchy name.
Have you done the necessary leg work?
Are you ready for the next step?
After reading your cry for help i would suggest maybe taking a job with a professional painter and eventually when you have enough experience, you will start to understand how a job is set up in order of tasks. For instance which area is painted first and what to do to next, etc., eventually you will learn how long each task shoud take and that if you add up these blocks of time you are on the road to putting an estimate together.
frank.

DavidC

I just skimmed through an article in Empire State Builder, a publication put out by the New York State Builders Association. (sorry, couln't find a web link for it)

There was a one line quote that stuck out for me and I thought it might apply here. The article is "David J. Kepner and Company" by Nancy Davis. The qoute attributed to David is;

"The most important thing education does is separate you from the competition."

I would add that neglecting to educate yourself will only keep you in the pack.

Good Luck
Dave

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www.CookContractingLLC.com

MALCO.New.York

And I did not ask to be born with a lisp, clubfoot, cleft palate, lazy Dichromic Eyes, a REALLY small penis, and dyslexia.

But that is what I got!!!

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Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE

darienite

http://www.tileamerica.com/default.a...AME=CALCULATOR

Here is a ft to sq ft converter. Thats all I got. Sounds like you got some work ahead of ya...good luck.

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be good and you will be lonesome, be lonesome and you will be free. Live a lie and you'll live to regret, thats what living is to me.

NAV

go to the bookstore and drop $50 on the national estimator book. it will answer all of your questions.

don't forget to markup for your area.

soupdizzle

if you dont know how to calculate the area of a room id suggest maybe looking into an estimating course or something at a local college. im sure you could find something after hours couple nights a week or something. thats really as basic as it gets for takeoff.

capital city

How can I tell you how to estimate something when I estimate everything different and never measure anything. I know how long it will take me to do just about anything and I know based on experience how much paint it will take. If its plaster or drywall or if its a house less then 10 years old there is good chance its only got 2 coats of crap paint with no primer and will suck up whatever I put on. Take the advice of figureing up what everything will cost and roll it all up in 1 hourly rate to charge. Dont go to each job and figure taxes, license, insurance, labor, profit,etc. Other then that if you dont know how long something will take you then dont bid the job. My sq ft price wont help you when you work faster or slower then me and you live in a area with a completely different cost of living.

ContractorQ

Try putting the words paint estimating software in your browser and have at it. I did all my estimating manually for the first 3 years of busines. I recently bought a estimating program that allows me to work up the estimate on the premisis and show the client the price before I leave. I know before I leave if they are interested in receiving a hard quote from me. I would never go back to my pre technology days.

HowWeRoll

I've been painting for over 8 years now. I've done both hourly & sub-contract work. I've done every thing from Residential to Commercial, both interior and exterior. I've definitely done the leg work, and I do "understand" how people estimate. I understand you what costs you put into making an estimate and I 100% understand how.

I'm pretty sure I consider myself a professional painter, otherwise I wouldn't be attempting my own company.

I was just curious what "other" companies charge per sq or linear foot. Whether or not they are in New York, or Zimbabwe! It's interesting to know regardless.

I also know the rates depend on the area, the demand, the surface etc... etc...

What made you think I am only a "catchy name" ??? What even gave you the slightest hint that I don't know which areas need to be prepped/painted prior to others?

I'm pretty sure there was a bit of ignorance in your reply.

Did I not get the news letter? Are other painting companies that bitter against competition? Even when... they very well might be in a entirely different country...

wow...

I do appreciate every one elses replies though. Thanks.

Frankawitz

Roll, I would write up a estimate like this, set your wage that you need to make, then piss on your competition who cares what they charge. As for estimates they are a crap shoot, I have found that if you give people information and details as to what your going to do for your customer they will hire you. You have to show you know what your doing and can do it in a timely fashion. the faster you can finish up the more money that you'll make, it's when a job drags on that you loss money. I have seen the big companies come in and bid a job at thousands of dollars and then I come in with very little overhead and cut their price up and I walk away with the job, but I have also had people under cut my prices so it's a give and take game. The other biggest thing I hear from customers is "Your the only one who returned my phone call" or "your the only one who showed up on time" these two things will break or make a deal. Good luck.

www.frankawitz.net

DavidC

Notably missing from the list is " your the only one that charged the going rate".

I really don't think that anyone is trying to be anything other than helpful. If you need anymore help in narrowing it down for you fire away.

Good Luck
Dave

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www.CookContractingLLC.com

lornmastro

Here is a courteous answer to your question...Yes you need to figure out how much you need to make per hr and how long each job will take. So pricing is something that only comes with experience...and I am still struggling with it.However as it is really important to build your customer base...remember referrals are very important in this business. Show up on time/be courteous/do a great job/provide great customer service and your business will grow. Good luck!!

John the estmtr

HowWeRoll.... You're not out of the Reno area, are you?