Standard that defines "2 Coats"? - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Richie-C · 06-21-2005, 07:01 PM

Do any of you know if there is a standard (PDCA or other) that defines the term "two coats?" Sort of battled it out with a customer because they did not consider my "wet on wet" two coats a true to coats. I told them to go *&!!! themselves (on the inside). Meanwhile, the job was beautiful, no holidays, etc etc. I tried to explain that depending on the paint being used, wet on wet is advantageous. Anyhoo, to avoid these situations, I was hoping there was some sort of standard.

Thanks!

Richie

bob · 06-21-2005, 07:22 PM

Industry standard is a cross hatch pattern one coat north south and one coat east west.
I have seen specifications that require a second coat painted the next day.
If your painting for a homeowner they don't care about industry standards good luck

George Z · 06-21-2005, 09:37 PM

Follow manufacturer's recommendation for drying times
between coats. You have to wait a few hours.

**ProWallGuy** · 06-21-2005, 09:47 PM

I have to agree with George.
"Wet on wet" doesn't count as two coats IMO.
Try not to pigeonhole yourself with specific wording in contracts, unless it will be done specifically as written.
Try "prime and paint" as compared to "prime and paint 2 coats".
One thing about contracts, is it protects you and the customer . Be prepared to do exactly what they are paying for, as you expect them to pay for everything you are doing.

**Teetorbilt** · 06-21-2005, 09:48 PM

Re-coat time is usually on the pail, show it to the customer. Somebody will be right.

AAPaint · 06-21-2005, 10:10 PM

Never should one paint "wet on wet" for sure. My guess is industry standard is to follow the manufacturers recommendations for dry times. They also recommend the proper cleaning/prep methods, primers, application method, wet/dry mills, a.k.a "coating system"....If you offer your customers a warranty and don't want to be stuck holding the ball on the whole deal, or you want to guarantee consistency and quality, I recommend following what the mfg. says in order to hold them to thier warranties as well. It's also hard for the homeowner to argue about what they need when you are holding data sheets or the current coating systems catalog from the mfg in your hand. For instance: This is Duration Home Interior Latex Matte that I use frequently.

Drying Time, @ 77°F, 50% RH:
temperature and humidity dependent
Touch: 1 hour
Recoat: 4 hours

Just a side note. I almost never have to cross hatch north south east west any walls. I only roll a different direction when the roller doesn't fit or if there is a low spot in the wall the roller refuses to paint...If you use enough paint and let the roller apply it properly instead of trying to spread paint, you can paint one to one and a half strips straight up and down all the way down the wall and not have any issues with flashing or coverage. Use LOTS of paint when you roll...SMOOTH, semi-gloss ceiligns and things of that nature are sometimes obviously a different story.

Tom Rohland · 06-22-2005, 04:11 AM

The PDCA Standard is as follows:

COAT: A layer of paint, varnish, lacquer, or other material applied, then allowed to dry. To back roll or apply a wet-on-wet film still constitutes a single coat.

I know of one painter in town that sells the "wet-on-wet" process as two coats.

That's a no-no.

Tom Rohland, Jr.
Ranger Painting

Richie-C · 06-22-2005, 04:54 PM

Thanks all--

Tom--that's what I was looking for--thanks!

BTW--believe me, I would never sell the wet on wet method as two coats. And in fact, I really should not have used the term wet on wet here. That's not truly what I did. This was a case where I was called on to repaint a hallway due to damage done by a GC, pressured to get in and out in one day. So I did. The customer was shrewd and gave me a hard time. I guess i used the term wet on wet because I normally would have waited until the next day, where possible.

Richie

Robert S · 02-20-2007, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richie-C

Thanks all--

Tom--that's what I was looking for--thanks!

BTW--believe me, I would never sell the wet on wet method as two coats. And in fact, I really should not have used the term wet on wet here. That's not truly what I did. This was a case where I was called on to repaint a hallway due to damage done by a GC, pressured to get in and out in one day. So I did. The customer was shrewd and gave me a hard time. I guess i used the term wet on wet because I normally would have waited until the next day, where possible.

Richie

worse when they tell you how .like put it on thick.lol. i try telling them 2 thin coats is better than one thick coat.some grasp it.some dont

4thGeneration · 02-20-2007, 10:44 PM

I would rather have a midline paint of two coats with allowed drying time between rather than one good paint rolled wet on wet. The best thing to do is follow what the label on the can states that way you have a whole corporation backing what you say rather than your "opinion" Also, good choice to speak about the customer inside your own mind no matter how out of their skull the homeonwer becomes.

Joewho · 02-20-2007, 11:38 PM

I go by mil thickness. If the paint is dried enough that it has shrunk to the proper mil thickness, it's ready for the next coat. And therefore an honest two coats.

IMO, paint sticks better when the second coat is applied right after the first has dried. Rarely is this absolutely necessary, but often it's a lot more convenient for me. I like to do a room completley rather than run the whole job 1 coat and start over for the 2nd, when I'm working alone.

Also, when a customer doesn't want to pay for 2 true coats, I write the contract to say I will paint "for complete coverage" that way I don't get stuck doing two true coats but still may backroll.

Brushslingers · 02-20-2007, 11:43 PM

Robert, i'm gonna beat you with a stick for a moment... sorry but here goes -

YOU AREN'T PAYING FOR THE PAINT, PUT IT ON THE WALL!

Two thin coats are not a paint job, nor is one thick.... mil is the only way... spec it right, paint it right. You've said two thin in too many posts to ignore, sorry if you take offense.

AAPaint · 02-20-2007, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brushslingers

Robert, i'm gonna beat you with a stick for a moment... sorry but here goes -

YOU AREN'T PAYING FOR THE PAINT, PUT IT ON THE WALL!

Two thin coats are not a paint job, nor is one thick.... mil is the only way... spec it right, paint it right. You've said two thin in too many posts to ignore, sorry if you take offense.

Amen.

Millage is king.

Danahy · 02-21-2007, 12:15 AM

The only product I ever use the wet on wet method for 2 coats, is BM exterior semi-transparent stain... as it says to do on the can...

Other than that, wet on wet to me just means backrolling, and that's like a 1 1/2 coat, but still not two.

Robert S · 03-15-2007, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brushslingers

Robert, i'm gonna beat you with a stick for a moment... sorry but here goes -

YOU AREN'T PAYING FOR THE PAINT, PUT IT ON THE WALL!

Two thin coats are not a paint job, nor is one thick.... mil is the only way... spec it right, paint it right. You've said two thin in too many posts to ignore, sorry if you take offense.

no i dont take it offensive but i dont agree with mill either simply because the mil would have to be constant to be accurate. and adding to excess paint on the wall can leed to pealing thin coats will adhere to each other moore gooder. right?

leroy · 03-15-2007, 10:07 PM

Anyone know of a standard for a repaired crack in a cottage that is not heated in the winter. It is hot in the summer and as cold as -15 in the winter. The cracks are obviously going to come back. These cracks were in drywall. I wonder if there is some sort of a standard?

Thank You,

LeRoy