Staining Rough Cedar - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

lpp · 05-03-2006, 06:44 PM

We are working on a bid using Penofin with a Cedar toner (1 coat) on a patio built with rough cedar. All stain work is over head (426 sf) with the exception of 3 support beams. It will NOT include any sanding or washing before hand, just spraying it on (garden sprayer) followed by brushing. We are a relatively new company and don't have any numbers as far as the ranges for sf pricing for this. I know it varies wildly by individual production rates, but the majority of our stainwork has been interior cabinets and such and therefore have no production rates for any type of exterior staining. We are currently looking at $1.20/sf which was our 2 coat labor rate for staining wood floors. Does that sound too high to you guys? Again, I understand it varies based on production rates, labor rates, overhead, etc. This will be a 2 man crew in Texas with no established production rates for this type of work. Appreciate all the help you can offer.

Humble Abode · 05-03-2006, 07:48 PM

"over head"

You're staining the underside of a deck? How high up is it?

If it's a second story deck and you have to use ladders (i'm only guessing here) it seems a little low to me. Give us a little more detail about the environment.

lpp · 05-03-2006, 09:59 PM

I'm sorry, I was interrupted a few times while writing my post that I left out some needed details. It's the ceiling over a patio that is the rough cedar (not the patio itself). Only the underside and fascia needs to be done since the top side is shingled. The GC wants it sprayed (garden type sprayer) then brushed over using a dry brush instead of wiping with a rag. Thanks again for any help.

This is a single story home with the ceiling height about 8'. Suppose I could use a brush extenion to save labor on climbing up and down a ladder.

Humble Abode · 05-04-2006, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpp

I'm sorry, I was interrupted a few times while writing my post that I left out some needed details. It's the ceiling over a patio that is the rough cedar (not the patio itself). Only the underside and fascia needs to be done since the top side is shingled. The GC wants it sprayed (garden type sprayer) then brushed over using a dry brush instead of wiping with a rag. Thanks again for any help.

This is a single story home with the ceiling height about 8'. Suppose I could use a brush extenion to save labor on climbing up and down a ladder.

I get it thank you.

If you are able to do all this in one day $511 is a good price. It sounds like you can. But I wouldn't be a bit surprised if one of your comepetitors can do it for less. I highly doubt there is someone out there who would do it for less that $1.00 per square foot. At least in this part of the country.

Mike Finley · 05-04-2006, 08:10 AM

I am listed as a "Penofin Pro" and have done just enough of these types of jobs to know I would rather do something else

The last one I did just like what you are describing was using Penofin Red Label, one coating the underside of a deck and about 6 large posts, the patio beneath was a finished area so a lot of precautions with plastic tarps had to be taken to avoid any of the stain getting on that area. I charged them $1300 which included the stain.

We actually sprayed and then rolled it.

Humble Abode · 05-04-2006, 08:24 PM

Hey mike

How long did it take?

AAPaint · 05-04-2006, 08:46 PM

Mmmm! Staining cedar! Are you supplying the materials? I'm also a penofin and wolman certified contractor...keep getting calls for people wanting to buy the dang stain from me. (side business idea!!) Is it new wood? I always recommend a light cleaning at the very least, even for new wood to remove excess mill glaze, etc. Do some homework on exterior wood care, there is a lot of money to be made if you know how to handle wood like this properly.

Mike Finley · 05-04-2006, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humble Abode

Hey mike

How long did it take?

It took me and a helper around 5 hours total if I remember right. It was about a year ago.

Mike Finley · 05-04-2006, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AAPaint

keep getting calls for people wanting to buy the dang stain from me.

LOL, I get that every once in awhile too, especially since Penofin pulled their product from HD last year.

lpp · 05-05-2006, 08:37 AM

Appreciate all of y'alls input. This was my first experience with penofin and it went pretty well. We used the blue label western red cedar. Was curious though... even after stirring and stirring and more stirring do y'all have problems with little chunkies in the penofin? It was unreal. I also recommended washing even though it was new wood but the GC didn't think it needed it, so hopefully that won't come back to bite him in the rear. And one more side note... before we decided on the penofin we had also contemplated using Olympic Maximum but had heard it will clog up the garden type sprayers but was supposedly just as good of product as the Penofin. Any experiences good/bad with that product?

Mike Finley · 05-05-2006, 08:49 AM

Never notice chunks, but I only use the red label so maybe it's more of an issue in the blue. You could have strained it through your panty hose.

I don't think not washing it would be an issue since it was rough cedar. If it was a smooth wood then the issue of mill glazing might have been a problem.

lpp · 05-05-2006, 09:07 PM

Straining was a must. Perhaps "chunkies" wasn't the best word to describe them, but the first one that came to mind.

These weren't your regular pigment sediments. They were larger (some around 1/4") and hard like dried plaster. I have just never before seen anything like that floating around in any of the stains I have previously used, but it was in all of the gallons of penofin I bought yesterday.
The main reason I felt the rough cedar needed washing was because it had saw dust all over it (wouldn't all brush off) and in a few places even looked like the carpenter stepped in dog poo then on the cedar before hanging it. Not sure what it really was, but that's the vision my mind came up with upon first glance. On second thought though, they have no dog. Hmmmm...

AAPaint · 05-05-2006, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Finley

Never notice chunks, but I only use the red label so maybe it's more of an issue in the blue. You could have strained it through your panty hose.

I don't think not washing it would be an issue since it was rough cedar. If it was a smooth wood then the issue of mill glazing might have been a problem.

Oops.....yeah, not really a need to wash if it's clean and new rough sawn, but I'd still want a clean surface. I'm kind of a stickler for details. Not only that, but, umm....I'm trying to sell ALL of my services to everyone, heh!