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Mike(VA)

Michael,

You are one of the reasons that HO's have such a poor perception of contractors. I can say with some certainty that you DO NOT know how to run a business.
If you did, then you would not be so down on those of us who do know how to run one.

There is a big difference in asking a 'how to charge' vs 'what to charge' question. We will be glad to answer questions about HOW to price a job all day long because it is something that will improve the business of anyone who listens (or reads).

You said: Dude, if i could find tile work at 3.50 5 days a week, I'd be very well off. Tell you what, you get the job for 10, I'll do it for 5 and we'll all make money. Shoot me your comapny info

I would like you to tell me why you would be very well off at 3.50 when I can't make enough at that rate to buy lunch. You say that at 3.50 you would do well which implies (guessing) that 2.50 is so so and a 1.50 you would starve. Why is that? Is 1.50 not enough to run your business? If so, then why would a general 'going rate' be good for anyone, especially someone who does know how to price his work? Telling someone who doesn't know how to price his work to use 'the going rate' will surely help drive the guy out of business since he may not make enough money to succeed.

So Michael, tell us what your overhead is as a percentage of your gross sales for last year. How does that translate into a mark up amount to use when pricing jobs and explain how that impacts your bottom line when you make an error. Tell us that using the 'materials plus labor' method will ensure success since we all know that your labor rate includes your profit. Right?

You do a disservice to people asking pricing questions by suggesting that they could use someone else's rates rather than showing them how to price their jobs properly. So the guy goes out and uses the 2.25 per sf rate and he ends up owing money at the end of the job because that rate wouldn't cover his costs. How did that help him?

Now you can go on picking apart senior poster's comments as a deflection from the original issue, but the fact remains that directing someone who needs help running his business to use someone else's rate is wrong. Inversely, you could help many new guys, and some older guys, by explaining the factors and elements of proper pricing. However, that may be hard because I would suspect that you yourself, do not know how to do such a task.

If it sounds like I am being a bit harsh on your, well, I am. As was stated before, this is a public forum and there are hundreds, if not more, people who may read this and many will come away with he wrong idea. That is why I said that you are one of the reason that HO's have a bad view of contractors.

So I will ask you again, "Why is 3.50 a good rate for you?" Explain that please.

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Clifton, Great Falls, McLean, Fairfax Station, Manassas, Virginia Renovation Contractor

fine-lyfinished

thats what i thought. more sharing

fine-lyfinished

3.50 sq ft.. the square foot price is the only senseable way to estimate. If you go by the hour then one or the other party gets shorted. You go slow and make a lot of money for not a lot of work. you go fast the home owner gets a lot of work for not a lot of money. Per square foot everybody knows what the job will cost. how slow you're going is up to you.

fine-lyfinished

get a hair cut, that will save you time taking a shower in the morning.

besides that, do you really want answers to all of your questions or just causing trouble?

If someone asks me "what should i charge to lay tile in HO basement, it is on slab" i say $3 sq/ft

If someone asks me "what should i charge to lay tile in HO basement, it is on slab and i have to remove base, cut jambs, remove glue, walk one foot with a clown hat on AND pet the dog at the same time" then i tell them $8.50 sq ft.

fine-lyfinished

with lame joists like that you'll need 1and 1/2 inches of subfloor before you start tiling. Travertine is my favorite stone, very easy to work with, you can even cut it with the hand held wet saw with no water, saves on mess. (cut outside of course)

$5 sq/ft is labor, NOT materials. the materials are going to be 8-20 sqft. depending on the grade of stone the client wants.

fine-lyfinished

see how easy it to share that info. i knew you could do it.

wizendwizard

OK Finely, if I can prove to you that your pricing is short would you be more willing to listen?

Everyone with any true experiance doing estimating knows that estimation programs are a baseline to build your pricing and profit on.

They offer the LOWEST rate for you to build on and make money.

You bidding seems to be offering what you think should be MY price for installing tile on a floor, without knowledge of my employees pay scale. Without figuring my travel time and OH.

Without knowing the full details of these jobs or my business, you sat here in OPEN forum and told all of MY customers (and yours) that MY price is too high. That your price is right.

You are in S. MICH. you are in a repressed economy.
I am in South Carolina, I am doing midgrade and highend installs for military personel and Dr's and Lawyers.

You are bidding like a one man show with no O.H.
I bid based on business application of labor + O.H. + Profit

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There is no such thing as an illegal immigrant, they are either illegal or immigrants.
I'm Retired, or a student, don't really know anymore.

wizendwizard

OK you can answer the question now. He proved he has no clue.

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"If you start the grout process over, you too could use sparkly grout!"
There is no such thing as an illegal immigrant, they are either illegal or immigrants.
I'm Retired, or a student, don't really know anymore.

angus242

I wanted you to answer the questions because I know there's no way you can perform those tasks and still charge $3/sq ft. (ok, so a little trouble never hurt either). The question now is why even mention $3? Unless you're doing a virgin concrete floor with no baseboard, doors or other items to maneuver around, the price will never actually be $3. (BTW, $8.5 is still really low for all that work, especially being a jackass in a clown suit)

If you're telling people $3 to get into the door, that's marketing. It may get you into some places but you know the price is going to increase and customers don't want to hear that. So you're digging yourself a hole to climb out of right off the bat. As you have been told, you're underselling yourself. Stop using the retarded mentality that undercutting price keeps you working. Remember, you are charging people for your time. Isn't your time valuable to you? I know mine is. Spend some time around here looking. Keep your mouth shut and your eyes open. If you're serious about running a business, there is a lot of priceless info on this site for your to digest. Don't come in here all Mother Theresa like and try saving the world, one tile job at a time. If that's your thing, you're better served getting involved with Habitat for Humanity. Otherwise, you need to be more business-like with your business. (key word being business?) Act like a professional. Do professional work and charge like a professional. Don't be a Craig's List moron. If $3 is your deal, just become an employee. It makes life even easier for you.

And don't be a jackass and start with the personal attacks. Besides, I shower at night so I don't go to bed dirty. Get it right before you start bringing my hair up.

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Angus
L+M+O+P=C
"Promise only what you can deliver. Then deliver more than you promise"

angus242

tree fiddy!!!!

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Angus
L+M+O+P=C
"Promise only what you can deliver. Then deliver more than you promise"

neolitic

Save us all some grief, read this
and come back when you're finished.

http://www.contractortalk.com/f16/pr...success-27899/

BTW: Newspapers have editions.
Houses have additions, because they
are added on....

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(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)

WarnerConstInc.

So that means you would tile a normal 5x7 bathroom for around a 100 bucks?

Those little cut up kitchens that are only 70 square feet but, take 4 days to get done (not 8 hour days) would be about 250?

I will call you and pay you to do all those you want. I will still make damn good money and my knees and my back won't hurt anymore.

You do roofs?

You also owe me 10 bucks for having to read all 4 pages. I will PM with my address.

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rselectric1

Love the haircut jab at Angus in post 64. (Did you actually think that's what he looks like?)
Come to think of it, maybe he does look like that now now, I haven't seen him in a few weeks.

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220...221...whatever it takes!

fine-lyfinished

You all still don't get it. No one is asking that kind of question, or wants that kind of detail.. ..They are probably in another trade, times are tough so they are going to brach out, want some assistace from fellow tradesmen, a simple base line, rule of thumb, going rate, prevailing wage...... It's easy, just answer their question as it is put to you. "Hey guys, looking for some help here. HO wants me to put down some tile in his basement for him, what should i charge?" answer: $3.50 sq/ft.... See how easy that is? you all should try it sometime.

fine-lyfinished

do you ever get grout in your hair? Epoxy grout.

fine-lyfinished

no, i would charge more for that small of a job(but it would only take 2.5 hours)

But like I said, when someone asks a simple question, they want a simple answer. Not some run around mumbo jumbo about how many trowels do you own, what kind of gas milage do you get, are you using grey or white mortar....

fine-lyfinished

I already answered that question.

fine-lyfinished

Brian gives good advice. I have made mistakes bidding jobs myself. But I will continue to give people who ask an answer if I can.

neolitic

Just be prepared to meet resistance here,
as it is most likely that you will be giving
incorrect information more often than not,
and you will certainly be giving the lurking
HO's ammunition to misinterpret and make
life miserable for other contractors.

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Put your location in your profile!
(Sorry....it seems there really are dumb questions)

oldfrt

So you're going to give away what takes many of us years to hone in,because you think it's as simple as a courtesy to someone who asks?

Why not tell all your competitors so they will be able to bid successfully against you?

Then they won't be competitors at all,just a little more informed on your willingness to even the playing field so bidding becomes a mute point in gaining a project.

So,as you stated in OP:
If you want any more free advice just ask me, if i can help, I will.

I say:
Advice is worth only what what it cost you to give.
Seeing that you didn't work your way to gaining an insight on what you need to charge,than your advice is totally worthless.
The going rate is a myth,adopted by those that hope to drop into a new field,feet running,but blind to the variations in each project and/or individual overhead ,destined to trip over an unseen complication and fall into a financial hole.

Almost as bad as giving a Ballpark estimate before even seeing a project.

Seeing almost all your posts are about pricing,me thinks you need a tad more experience before you offer any pricing advice.

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