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Set-Up For Spraying Cabinet Doors

 
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:03 AM   #21
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Re: Set-Up For Spraying Cabinet Doors


Tom, where is Cedar Tucky? Cedar Lake?
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:06 AM   #22
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Re: Set-Up For Spraying Cabinet Doors


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I sand them in place.
I guess if you are looking for an upper body/back workout, and working around the hanging clip, that works...

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Corner pooling can occur hanging or flat.
Never really every had a problem with corner pooling laying flat... but then again, because I can spin it or walk around it, that shouldn't be an issue...

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Gravity works against you on the edges and details on either method.
I would have to disagree with that... but it could be in how you are spraying...


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As you said, to each their own.

Tom
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:09 AM   #23
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Re: Set-Up For Spraying Cabinet Doors


Space can go away very quickly when doing casework.

I'm hoping to get a job where neither area I have available will work. The volume of plywood alone would over whelm them (175- 4x8 sheets, 240-28x70 panels). Plus all the raw material to make the necessary door frames. Fortunately for me my parents 48x60 pole barn is essentially empty since they sold their motor home. I'll set up a temporary fab shop and spray booth. Finished items will go directly into the trailer waiting for delivery.

Tom
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:12 AM   #24
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Re: Set-Up For Spraying Cabinet Doors


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You'll notice a grill towards the rear of the table, that is an intake for a down draft system. Between that, gun position and pressure rebound (the problem is rebound off the table, not over spray) is not an issue. I spray the edges with the fan parellal to the edge, perpendicular to the edge can be an issue.

Leo types faster than I do.

Tom
Is your downdraft system homemade or purchased? If homemade what are you using to pull the air through it?
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:23 AM   #25
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Re: Set-Up For Spraying Cabinet Doors


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Tom, where is Cedar Tucky? Cedar Lake?
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I guess if you are looking for an upper body/back workout, and working around the hanging clip, that works...



Never really every had a problem with corner pooling laying flat... but then again, because I can spin it or walk around it, that shouldn't be an issue...



I would have to disagree with that... but it could be in how you are spraying...




Yes Cedar Lake, Indiana, the town south of my location is Lowelabma. One of those inside jokes about the "hicks" living here. I'm about 35 miles south east of downtown Chicago, I am from Chicago.

I'm going to called a Koolaide drinker, but all of my sanding is done with the ETS 125 connected to a CT. 220-320 grit Brilliant 2, never and issue. Really easy to do, no work at all.

On a cope and stick door, there will be vertical surface no matter the orientation when spraying. Seen many with corner build and runs.

If I can spray an entire door vertically, I'm pretty sure I can handle the details when they're flat.

Do you spray your boxes on the flat and then assemble, or assemble and then finish? If it is the latter, how do you avoid vertical?

Tom

Last edited by tjbnwi; 02-12-2013 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:31 AM   #26
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Re: Set-Up For Spraying Cabinet Doors


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Is your downdraft system homemade or purchased? If homemade what are you using to pull the air through it?
Homemade, an explosion proof motor and blade from Grainger and a sheet metal fabricated filter cabinet.

Tom
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:39 AM   #27
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Re: Set-Up For Spraying Cabinet Doors


Born and raised in Chicago (thatís what you say when youíre really from Gary) My parents live in Crown Point now. Small world
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:41 AM   #28
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Re: Set-Up For Spraying Cabinet Doors


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I'm going to called a Koolaide drinker, but all of my sanding is done with the ETS 125 connected to a CT. 220-320 grit Brilliant 2, never and issue. Really easy to do, no work at all.
Except on your arms... lol.... you must be young...

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On a cope and stick door, there will be vertical surface no matter the orientation when spraying. Seen many with corner build and runs.
Then they were sprayed incorrectly... but actually makes my point... a door hung is ALL vertical... the chances of any issues, likes runs or corner pooling are INCREASED when spraying vertically...

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If I can spray an entire door vertically, I'm pretty sure I can handle the details when they're flat.
I'm sure you do fine with it... takes a larger footprint to accomplish the same thing, but if it works for you, that's all that matters... If you have 30 doors to do, you are very limited in how many you can hang, sand and finish at a time... which means the same process repeated over and over again... with spraying flat and a rack, you can go from start to finish... which is another reason why hanging takes more time IMHO...Do a time study on it, and I am sure you will find some missing profit...

Quote:
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Do you spray your boxes on the flat and then assemble, or assemble and the finish? If it is the latter, how do you avoid vertical?

Tom
For boxes we use pre-finished... unless it is an open box or one with glass that we are matching the exterior... it's costs more money to buy it unfinished, buy the finish, multi-coat and sand it (unless you don't want to pay yourself) for something that is going to be looked at 10% of the time... plus we use Columbia Forest, and their product and finish is great...

Either way it is finished before assembly as are the frames...
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:45 AM   #29
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Re: Set-Up For Spraying Cabinet Doors


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Born and raised in Chicago (thatís what you say when youíre really from Gary) My parents live in Crown Point now. Small world
Not from Gary. I have the birth certificate to prove it.

If they shop at the Crown Point Jewel, they've probably meet my wife. She was there for 17 years, she's been at the Dyer Jewel for the last 4 years.

I take it you are from this area?

Tom
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:55 AM   #30
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Re: Set-Up For Spraying Cabinet Doors


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Except on your arms... lol.... you must be young...



Then they were sprayed incorrectly... but actually makes my point... a door hung is ALL vertical... the chances of any issues, likes runs or corner pooling are INCREASED when spraying vertically...



I'm sure you do fine with it... takes a larger footprint to accomplish the same thing, but if it works for you, that's all that matters... If you have 30 doors to do, you are very limited in how many you can hang, sand and finish at a time... which means the same process repeated over and over again... with spraying flat and a rack, you can go from start to finish... which is another reason why hanging takes more time IMHO...Do a time study on it, and I am sure you will find some missing profit...



For boxes we use pre-finished... unless it is an open box or one with glass that we are matching the exterior... it's costs more money to buy it unfinished, buy the finish, multi-coat and sand it (unless you don't want to pay yourself) for something that is going to be looked at 10% of the time... plus we use Columbia Forest, and their product and finish is great...

Either way it is finished before assembly as are the frames...
My oldest is 35 youngest 25, want to take a guess at my age?

I agree, all comes down to the person behind the guns understanding of the product and technique.

I've hung up to the number of hangers I have. 3 dozen doors at a time. Handle them twice, hang and remove. As you can see there is plenty of rack space when the need arises and for shelves. Never done a time study, based on gut feeling.

A lot of the casework is colored Kem Aqua, pre finished is not an option on most of pieces. I never understood, not getting paid for your time. Shouldn't you charge accordingly?

Tom
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:59 AM   #31
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Re: Set-Up For Spraying Cabinet Doors


That was a confusing statement on my part. I was born and raised in Chicago (thatís what guys like me say when weíre really from Gary). The folks shop at Strack & Vantills (sp?) at the intersection of 30 and 41.
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:08 AM   #32
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Re: Set-Up For Spraying Cabinet Doors


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My oldest is 35 youngest 25, want to take a guess at my age?
Lol... touche'... guess I must just be getting lazy...

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Originally Posted by tjbnwi View Post
I've hung up to the number of hangers I have. 3 dozen doors at a time. Handle them twice, hang and remove. As you can see there is plenty of rack space when the need arises and for shelves. Never done a time study, based on gut feeling.
Try it and trust me you will find it quicker for the flat... which means, more money for you...

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A lot of the casework is colored Kem Aqua, pre finished is not an option on most of pieces. I never understood, not getting paid for your time. Shouldn't you charge accordingly?

Tom
Meaning, that by the time you purchase the materials and account for time and labor to sand and finish it (that could be spent on more important things BTW), it costs MORE than it does just to buy pre-finished... so if you are charging to accommodate your time, you just found some hidden profit...

Same reason we don't make our own metal or ceramic knobs and pulls...
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:13 AM   #33
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Re: Set-Up For Spraying Cabinet Doors


What tell them they have to shop at Jewel, so the store doesn't close my and wife has her job.

Strack & Van Til, (I know it doesn't matter) I know exactly where that store is. My wife will shop at the one in St. John and is looking forward to the one opening in Cedar Lake.

Can you tell things are a little slow right now? Way to much forum time.

I was from the southwest side of Chicago. This one landed 2 blocks from where I was raised;

http://galleries.apps.chicagotribune...1972-pictures/

It made for a few interesting days.

Tom
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:16 AM   #34
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Re: Set-Up For Spraying Cabinet Doors


I have tried to spray while the door is hanging, but the Rockler hanger seems to be in the way in the top corner. How do you work around it?
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:23 AM   #35
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Re: Set-Up For Spraying Cabinet Doors


I donít know why Iím do this forum time right now Ė Iím up to my a$$ in work and should be out in the shop. Thereís just a couple threads that have some interesting discussions going and I canít tear myself away
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:28 AM   #36
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Re: Set-Up For Spraying Cabinet Doors


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Lol... touche'... guess I must just be getting lazy...

Meaning, that by the time you purchase the materials and account for time and labor to sand and finish it (that could be spent on more important things BTW), it costs MORE than it does just to buy pre-finished... so if you are charging to accommodate your time, you just found some hidden profit...

Same reason we don't make our own metal or ceramic knobs and pulls...
If the client wants a colored finish how do you get it pre-finished? How would you get the ones pictured in pre-finished? The cubby is a custom dye blend to match a sample and the cabs are Kem Aqua Plus.

Again, I just charge accordingly. Not sure how this is hidden profit, just business. What are the more important things than doing the task at hand? I hear/read this often.

I have used pre-finished on a few occasions, just have not run into it working out often.

I have made custom metal pulls by the way.

Please do not take any of this as argumentative. I'm trying to understand others way of doing things.

Tom
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:34 AM   #37
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Re: Set-Up For Spraying Cabinet Doors


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I donít know why Iím do this forum time right now Ė Iím up to my a$$ in work and should be out in the shop. Thereís just a couple threads that have some interesting discussions going and I canít tear myself away
Don't worry, you're not alone. I've got materials I need to run to a job site, and I'm sitting here salivating over your wine rack and engrossed in a discussion of which is the best way to spray cabinet doors.... hanging or flat, turntable 1-1/2" or 2-1/2", what about corner pooling, overspray and bounce back, how about the gravity and airflow thing?

Just fascinating stuff really.

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Old 02-12-2013, 10:50 AM   #38
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Re: Set-Up For Spraying Cabinet Doors


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If the client wants a colored finish how do you get it pre-finished? How would you get the ones pictured in pre-finished? The cubby is a custom dye blend to match a sample and the cabs are Kem Aqua Plus.
You must have missed where I said if it was an open cab or one with glass...


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Again, I just charge accordingly. Not sure how this is hidden profit, just business.
Because if you have a job where you can use pre-finished, and it saves you money, that is more money in your pocket... i.e. - hidden profit...


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Please do not take any of this as argumentative. I'm trying to understand others way of doing things.

Tom
No worries... I didn't take it that way...
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:00 AM   #39
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Re: Set-Up For Spraying Cabinet Doors


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I have tried to spray while the door is hanging, but the Rockler hanger seems to be in the way in the top corner. How do you work around it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaVinciRemodel View Post
I donít know why Iím do this forum time right now Ė Iím up to my a$$ in work and should be out in the shop. Thereís just a couple threads that have some interesting discussions going and I canít tear myself away
I don't recall having the issue. If you look at the pics in post #5, they really don't block much of the door.

I'm waiting for some material to come in and to hear back on a few proposals.

It can suck up time when threads get interesting.

I think I shoot vertical because it is what I had done for years when shooting automobiles. Just what I know and am used to.

As I said, I've used Collins clamps to hang items to shoot (feel free to look around at all the albums);

https://picasaweb.google.com/tbadernwi/CollinsClamps

Tom
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:18 AM   #40
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Re: Set-Up For Spraying Cabinet Doors


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You must have missed where I said if it was an open cab or one with glass...



Because if you have a job where you can use pre-finished, and it saves you money, that is more money in your pocket... i.e. - hidden profit...



No worries... I didn't take it that way...
Shouldn't you adjust shop time accordingly? If you figure an hour to machine the sheet, and no time to finish, I see the only additional profit is the mark up difference on the cost of the sheet. If you pay $1.00 a for a pre-finshed sheet and mark up 20%, you made $0.20 on the sheet less O&P. If you paid $0.80 per sheet for unfinished, you made $0.16 per-sheet less O&P on the material, you should charge accordingly for labor to finish. I do understand the time difference and you should be able to sell the piece for less than someone having to finish. Hopefully increasing sales, which may or may not lead to additional profits. I run into far more where pre-finished is not an option.

That's good.

(First time I've tried to answer in the quote area, hope it worked) Well it didn't, so I moved my response.

Tom

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