Sanding Sealer

plumbco

do you guys use sanding sealer? My painter past away and im finishing up my cabinets. Do you guys stain, sanding sealer, then finish? I hear some painters say not to sand after staining even if a sealer. Now on the finishes do you prefer poly,laq, varnish, etc. Thanks in advance

Scott Young

use the sanding sealer first. it keeps the stain from blotching. it works much like shellac. infact some sanding sealers are shellac/shellac based.

boman47k

Are you saying sealer on the bare wood then the stain? Don't think I have ever tried that. Seems the sealer would block the stain. I have used quite a bit of sealer on different things, but always after the stain.

metomeya

.........well sand the sanding sealer if its not smooth. other than that you have it right.

Scott Young

yes the sealer will block the stain. that is how it keeps it from blotching. there is also a product called a wood conditioner. that is roughly the same as a sanding sealer. i always cut my s/s 50% and the sand lightly. i then apply the stain.

Joewho

Sorry to hear about your painter.

You have the steps right. Sanding stain is never recommended. Sanding the S/S is recommended, but you have to be carful of the outside corners and edges. If you break through the S/S, it will remove stain and there will be bare wood in those areas.

Something I've done is use a sanding sponge (fine grit for S/S), and keep a finger between the sponge and any edges or corners. It won't take much to smooth the S/S, and I do recommend sanding prior to top coat. You want the cabinets to be funiture grade smooth. The good news it that you don't have to be picasso with the sandpaper, just a consistent, quick sanding.

For topcoat, I'd tell you to go with quick dry poly. If skill allows, you can go with one solid coat on the S/S. Otherwise, to get the best, easiest results, go with two thin coats. To be even safer, go with satin finish.

Hope this helps.
Tim

PS. Using sanding sealer gives a little more depth to the look, and the feel of a thicker finish. Your painter did you right.

boman47k

So you other guys use s/s before staining too? Like I said, I always sanded, stained, sealed, sand, seal again (spray). I asked a guy a while back with more experience than I and he said no! Don't seal oak cabinets first, the stain will not penetrate. Actually, I kind of thought he was a little behind. Speaking of penetrating, are we talking the same kind of stain here?

DeanV

For some softer woods I would consider a wood conditioner, some guys I know used thinned lacquer (or I suppose thinned sanding sealer) as a wash coat on these woods prior to staining. But that is for special cases only. Standard is stain, sealer, then topcoat. A lot of guys use the self-seal precat lacquer and do not use a sanding sealed since these precats sand really nice (better than some lacquer sealers I have used in the past).

Blackbird

Sealer and conditioner are a necesety when working with soft woods like alder. If you are using oak I wouldn't bother, it will block the stain. If you read the can it will say exactly what steps to follow. Last time I finished furnature I think It went like this: sand, seal, sand, stain, poly, sand, poly, sand, poly.

Scott Young

for oak, i don't do apply anything before stain. for other woods that blotch, i will use shellac prior to staining. oak is so porous you could use the sealer and then stain and i doubt that it would affect it much.


the steps i use for oak is sand, stain, shellac, and then a lacquer. the shellac keeps any silicon contamination from ruining the final coat.

for funiture i will sometimes use poly cut with acetone. i sand and recoat till i have the fill i want, and then hand rub it out.

Joewho

Bo, Man, actually, you're not supposed to seal oak first. It's a fairly hard, hardwood and it is not very porous.

Sanding sealer isn't usually used to pre-treat, or pre-seal wood prior to staining. It's a sealer that dries quick and makes a top coat look really good. It's used in production or new construction.

Pre-sealing wood, before staining has traditonally been done by thinning shellac with alcohol. There are ratios for different woods.

Say you have a piece of furniture and it's made of oak, pine and balsa wood. You want the stain to be the same, not light on the oak and really dark on the balsa wood. Oak is hard so it doesn't need anything. Pine is a softwood, but not too soft. You'd mix 7:1 alcohol to shellac and use it as a pre-treatment. Basla, believe it or not, is a hardwood, but it's the softest hardwood. It's softer than the pine, so you'd mix 5:1 or even 4:1 alcohol to shellac. It lessens the absorbsion of stain on the softer woods. This is just for demonstration purposes. You can find the exact ratio's on the internet.

Sanding after you pre-treat cleans up the surface of the wood. the sealer is still in the pores.

A secondary benefit is that pre-treatment helps to prevent blotching on pine, but it won't stop all of it.

Hope you can use this info in your adventures.

boman47k

I have never sealed anything first, but I was reading ia book about sealing oak, an open pore wood. It really did have me confused, because I have dealt with sealer and pine years ago. Nor have I dealt with paste wood filler on oak or anything else. I have wondered about the thinng aspect to pretreat different woods in order to get a more uniform staining. Interesting.

olddog61

Except for very specific reasons, sanding sealer should not be used prior to staining wood with a penetrating stain. Wood conditioners are not sealers and once again have very sepecific reasons for their use. Use of any type of wood sealer before staining will block penetration of the stain. Sanding sealers dry quickly, raise the grain, sand easily, and allow you get the perfect finish you desire.