Residential Painting and Drywall Finishing Contractors - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Union1 · 02-17-2007, 02:42 PM

I have been kicking around the idea of opening a residential union shop with a starting wage of around $15.00 hr up to 28.00hr with insurance and an 401k.
Are their any shops like this in your area's?
This idea is to help Union painters and finishers when commercial work gets slow, I think a solid business could be built on this foundation.

LennyV-NHSNOLA · 02-17-2007, 02:57 PM

You might want to conjure up the ghost of Jimmy Hoffa for this one. MUAHH-AHH-HA-HA-HA-HA

Union1 · 02-17-2007, 03:07 PM

Thats not what I was looking for, I'm sure I can take one painting crew and one finishing crew and keep them busy 52 weeks out of the year and make moeny, but also provide quality work for customers and quality life for the employes. Not to mention alittle coin for myself.
But a Happy Mardi Grais to you as well.
How's the work going down there?

Brushslingers · 02-17-2007, 03:20 PM

I already make an average of 32.50 an hour, pay my guys 15+ and hang/finish at 28.00 per board, which works out to about 36.00+ per hour. Last time I worked a union/state job in Delaware the pay rate was 27 something... why would a union worker work for you at 15.00, much less a non-union already making 15? Work those points out and you may have a good idea.

Union1 · 02-17-2007, 03:46 PM

Well as the type of person that would rather earn a pay check than draw "unenjoyment" the numbers work out that even though they might at 50-70% below scale not make as much per week.
But their hourly credits toward retirment plan are still accumlating and their insurance hours are still building as well as 401k well that sure beats drawing unemployment.
And they arent commited to staying at that level they can always go back to commercial(full scale) at any time they please.

Brushslingers · 02-17-2007, 03:51 PM

So your just talking about a union shop that isn't commercial to play with while the jobs aren't there.... heh, I think your local would have a fit.

May want to talk to them first... but ya, when I WAS working union, I woulda done it IF my local was ok with it.

**ProWallGuy** · 02-17-2007, 04:00 PM

With all due respect, this is not meant to knock anybody, union or not. But I have yet to ever meet or see any union 'commercial' workers who could cut it in a residential scenario.

A. Suzy Homeowner is much more picky than the average GC is.
B. Need to be much cleaner and detail oriented than a commercial jobsite.

I myself have hired many out-of-work union paperhangers, and not one has been able to cut it in a home. They all expected an apprentice to be there behind them picking up scraps, and washing down their paper.

Plus, their attitude of entitlement didn't get them very far either.

Commercial and residential are very different areas of work. If you could get the idea to fly, more power to ya.

Also, depending on your area, selling a residential job at union prices could be real tough. Ask any open shop, the illegal competition is brutal.

Union1 · 02-17-2007, 04:01 PM

They would like to see this in place instead of seeing the influx of illegal workers getting a foot hold in the area, and they are here.
Considerable thought has already went into this, but it isnt anywhere near a done deal yet.
This would be residential with light commercial up to 4 storys.

**ProWallGuy** · 02-17-2007, 04:06 PM

Where are you located?

Brushslingers · 02-17-2007, 04:11 PM

Good luck to ya, what your talking about... keeping dues paid, 401 contributions, insurance.... while running smaller jobs in the off season with a turnover rate of "it's warm and there's this job.. see ya", it's a taller order than what I do. Keep your head down!

Joewho · 02-17-2007, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Union1

They would like to see this in place instead of seeing the influx of illegal workers getting a foot hold in the area, and they are here.
Considerable thought has already went into this, but it isnt anywhere near a done deal yet.
This would be residential with light commercial up to 4 storys.

Foothold? Where are you?

Where I'm at, the union gladly hires them. Foothold? More like stranglehold out here.

LennyV-NHSNOLA · 02-17-2007, 09:48 PM

I had an experience being in a union about 30 years ago and found that unions are mostly for people that need the protection because they were crappy employees. I know that's not the case across the board but in my case, the union spent more time fighting to keep the job for some crappy assed employee that myself and many others quit the union. Of course, I live in a right to work state so we did not have to join the union if we didn't want to.

I've pretty much been in management or owned my own company since so I don't think I would ever want the "job security" that a union claims to provide. I don't see many of the old steel workers, coal miners, auto workers, airline employees, etc., who have been shut out of employment driving around in the big cars and the tailored suits... just the union big bosses.

Sorry... but I don't need someone else running my life. That's why I went into self employment and have never hired a union worker since.

Joewho · 02-18-2007, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Union1

I have been kicking around the idea of opening a residential union shop with a starting wage of around $15.00 hr up to 28.00hr with insurance and an 401k.
Are their any shops like this in your area's?
This idea is to help Union painters and finishers when commercial work gets slow, I think a solid business could be built on this foundation.

Actually, there was a shop like that in LV. 28/hr too. I don't know what happened to them though. A lot depends on where you are. Out here, I don't see any union people who really do residential. In the chicago area, lots of union people do residential at full rate.

Nickr42 · 02-18-2007, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LennyV-NHSNOLA

I had an experience being in a union about 30 years ago and found that unions are mostly for people that need the protection because they were crappy employees. I know that's not the case across the board but in my case, the union spent more time fighting to keep the job for some crappy assed employee that myself and many others quit the union. Of course, I live in a right to work state so we did not have to join the union if we didn't want to.

I've pretty much been in management or owned my own company since so I don't think I would ever want the "job security" that a union claims to provide. I don't see many of the old steel workers, coal miners, auto workers, airline employees, etc., who have been shut out of employment driving around in the big cars and the tailored suits... just the union big bosses.

Sorry... but I don't need someone else running my life. That's why I went into self employment and have never hired a union worker since.

I agree 100% . I worked for a non-union company for 6 years when I first started out and when a out of work Union guy would come in they couldn't handle it. At 10am they were wondering when they could take their cookie break. At lunch they were drinking and at 3:00 they wanted to go home. Oh, and none of them knew how too paint. I'm sure there are some good ones out there, but I havn't seen any.

MakDeco · 02-19-2007, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickr42

I agree 100% . I worked for a non-union company for 6 years when I first started out and when a out of work Union guy would come in they couldn't handle it. At 10am they were wondering when they could take their cookie break. At lunch they were drinking and at 3:00 they wanted to go home. Oh, and none of them knew how too paint. I'm sure there are some good ones out there, but I havn't seen any.

yes the cookie break was for 1/2 hr and a 1 hr lunch and clean up at 2:30. All tho I try work 6:30 - 2:30 but I don't take a break or a lunch. If I do take a lunch I will then stay later.

The problem on re paints is people usually home so 6:30 doesn't work so I end up have to adjust the hrs. I have issues with traffic most of the time and try to get on the road before its get bad!

Frankawitz · 02-19-2007, 09:36 AM

Union 1 I don't know what State your in but that wouldn't get any action in Michigan, the union painters have been out of new home construction in this State for more then 30 years

. Only place you will find union workers is commerical and there it's only the real big jobs, Like Comerica Park(Detroit Tigers) or Ford Field(Detroit Lions) jobs of this size get the unions, and to think of union on a repaint, That's a real funny one

. People here will hire on Illegals before they would even call a union shop out to look at the job.