A real headscratcher... - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Dan V. · 12-22-2008, 08:30 PM

I've been painting for most of my professional life as a remodeler. I always achieve excellent results. Until now!

I'm painting an oak mantel for a customer. It came unfinished from the manufacturer (Pearl). I sanded it down from 100 to 220. Vacuumed and wiped with tack cloth. Applied a coat of 123 latex primer. Waited 1 day and applied first coat of BM Regal semi-gloss white. All good so far.

Gave it the weekend and applied 2nd coat today. As it was going on, the paint appeared to be setting up way too fast, leaving rough patches (flashing?) where my supposedly wet edge was. I'm using a good quality brush (Purdy) and the paint is well-stirred. What could I be doing wrong?

Should I roll and back brush, or thin the paint or what? This is driving me nuts. I've never seen this before.

boman47k · 12-22-2008, 10:03 PM

Had a similiar problem not long ago wit BM Impervex. I had first tried Manor Hall. Just could not get the gloss wanted. With the MH, I think it set up too quick to what I was accustomed to., barely any gloss. I thought the BM might help, but it did not that much.

Be interesting to see what others say.

WisePainter · 12-23-2008, 08:12 AM

Never brush semi~gloss.
Especially if it is latex.

You are gonna have to spray.

OCRS · 12-23-2008, 08:29 AM

I always prefer to use an oil based primer for wood projects like that.

Burby · 12-23-2008, 08:35 AM

If it is already installed and can't be sprayed, put a bit of Flo-trol in the paint & move on.

Frankawitz · 12-23-2008, 08:38 AM

I would have used oil on oak, I would have used undercoater then used gloss oil. add some Pentrol to the oil will give you even a higher gloss look.

www.frankawitz.net

NAV · 12-23-2008, 09:44 AM

well its too late to use oil since you primed and coated with latex. It isn't worth the trouble to change materials now.

your best bet is to add Floetrol (or water) and work fast. If you are a good painter you can brush latex and make it look good. if you are still having trouble with wet edges flashing dont overlap your edges. paint the top and sides stopping at a breaking point. after lunch paint the other areas stopping at breaking points. the whole time making sure any overlap from your brush is brushed out to match the existing direction of hte brush strokes.

its hard for me to explain in words, i am much better showing people. think of painting a 6 panel door with latex in the sun. you would paint each panel and let them dry before you paint the rest of the door. that way your bursh will not pull the paint that is setting up.

good luck

world llc · 12-23-2008, 03:40 PM

in the subtle intolerant angry words of my old boss.... PAINT FASTER

or use flo-trol

Dan V. · 12-23-2008, 04:33 PM

Yes, it's already installed, so spraying isn't an option.

I'm curious why the first coat went on like a breeze, no probs at all. Only the second coat is doing this. This is also the first time I've used the Ben Moore Regal paint. I've brushed latex semi and even high gloss before and never had an issue. I paint fast.

Next time, I'll go with an oil-based primer. Guess I'll give the Floetrol a shot. Nothing to lose at this point.

WisePainter · 12-23-2008, 05:09 PM

It really doesn't make any sense for the paint to be pulling so much on the second coat. Usually the pull occurs on the first coat with latex.
No offense but the fact that you chose the products you did and then brushed them seems a bit odd for someone that has been painting for a long time.

BTW: I have sprayed plenty of installed mantels, got one on the block for next week.
It is called "masking".

Dan V. · 12-23-2008, 05:21 PM

I hear you on the spraying. Unfortunately, I loaned my rig to another contractor so he could paint the basement he just refinished. I didn't think it would be an issue since it was a small area and I've had good results with brushes in the past.

**slickshift** · 12-23-2008, 05:21 PM

The new formulation of Regal Semi- is very quick drying
It needs to be applied quickly, sags easily, and does not take kindly to over-brushing (it'll drag and pull)

Not sure what happened here, but that's the deal with the New Regal Semi-
Over-brushing and applying too slow could be your problem

WisePainter · 12-23-2008, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan V.

I hear you on the spraying. Unfortunately, I loaned my rig to another contractor so he could paint the basement he just refinished. I didn't think it would be an issue since it was a small area and I've had good results with brushes in the past.

I can dig it, latex topcoats are a bear even ProClassic latex. When a higher sheen is thrown into the mix it only gets tougher.
At this point a light sanding to remove the blemishes from pulling and a recoat with Flotrol is the only way to get paid.
I hate blemishes that are not easily dealt with

and

too.

Hope it works out for you, we have all been there

and will probably be there again someday.

painterdude · 12-25-2008, 01:51 PM

good advice on the light sanding and flotrol, but in reality.....sometimes you get a bad bucket of paint. Unfortuneatly you can't tell the homeowner it was BM's fault. Sometimes sh_t just happens. pd

Dan V. · 12-26-2008, 09:22 PM

PD, I think you might be right. I added some Floetrol and applied another coat after a light sanding. Same

deal! I went out today and bought a quart of SW semi and put a final coat on. Came out great! HO is away for the weekend, so they'll never know the difference.

Thank God that's over with.

WisePainter · 12-27-2008, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan V.

PD, I think you might be right. I added some Floetrol and applied another coat after a light sanding. Same

deal! I went out today and bought a quart of SW semi and put a final coat on. Came out great! HO is away for the weekend, so they'll never know the difference.

Thank God that's over with.

PHEW!!!
I love that feeling.

I rarely if ever use BM. I know they are a great paint company, but I have never had any problems with Sherwin Williams.
If it ain't broke don't fix it.

world llc · 12-27-2008, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan V.

PD, I think you might be right. I added some Floetrol and applied another coat after a light sanding. Same

deal! I went out today and bought a quart of SW semi and put a final coat on. Came out great! HO is away for the weekend, so they'll never know the difference.

Thank God that's over with.

i'm sold..... NO MORE BM!

painterdude · 12-28-2008, 01:21 PM

As listed in another topic everyone has favorite paints. I've used lots of them over 30 years , at least those I've been able to get as an east coast only worker. Benny Moore for my money has great wall paint, SW decent,but better latex semi. As for Oil trim paint I used to say it was Glidden but that was over 20 years ago. I find SW oil sucks as well, but probably the best was Pratt and Lambert effecto enamel, but that again was a long time ago. Either way, I'm glad it turned out well for you and your customer. pd

world llc · 12-28-2008, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by painterdude

As listed in another topic everyone has favorite paints. I've used lots of them over 30 years , at least those I've been able to get as an east coast only worker. Benny Moore for my money has great wall paint, SW decent,but better latex semi. As for Oil trim paint I used to say it was Glidden but that was over 20 years ago. I find SW oil sucks as well, but probably the best was Pratt and Lambert effecto enamel, but that again was a long time ago. Either way, I'm glad it turned out well for you and your customer. pd

try fine paints of europe oil.... it's SICK!

WisePainter · 12-28-2008, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by world llc

try fine paints of europe oil.... it's SICK!

The price or the finish?