Priming & Painting Drywall Repairs, Not New Drywall

 
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Old 01-05-2012, 11:32 PM   #1
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Priming & Painting Drywall Repairs, Not New Drywall


I've been in the drywall trades on and off for over 30 yrs but have been doing more and more painting over the last few years. But I've always had a bit of a problem with painting some of my repairs. I can get my drywall repairs to blend into existing textures nearly 100% so that's not a problem, but sometimes after painting you can see a slight difference to the area that was repaired.

I have always spot primed the repair, allowed it to dry longer than recommended time then paint the whole wall or ceiling, but you can always see a slight difference between the old and new. So on the last job I spot primed the repairs, let them dry, then primed the whole wall using Kilz 2 to try and even out the porosity, then painted with Glidden from Lowes and same thing. The texture blends perfectly and when looking at it straight on, the paint does too. But when viewed from an angle, the texture still blends fine but you can clearly see where I spot primed. At least I can see it and I'm sure some people wouldn't even notice it but I'm very picky and have been doing it to long so I can see things others might not. But I would like it to blend perfectly, both the drywall and the paint.

And I'm not really sure what it is that's making it show. Doesn't seem to be color holdout or sheen, because from straight on it looks even. Maybe just the difference in an old painted wall with several layers of paint and stipple, where the new repair had no stipple? Note that the walls had a very very light orange peel texture so my repair had a new coat of the same texture.

Oh, and on the last one I sprayed the entire job with my airless and didn't backroll anything.

So I'm kind of at a loss what else to try to get a better blend. Any suggestions?
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Old 01-06-2012, 12:26 AM   #2
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Re: Priming & Painting Drywall Repairs, Not New Drywall


Are you spray priming the repair?

Are you spraying the entire wall after priming?

Have you tried double priming the surface?

What are you using to prime?

Why are you not backrolling?

Edit: reread and saw the kilz 2 not my favorite product, try a different primer.

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Old 01-06-2012, 08:29 AM   #3
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Re: Priming & Painting Drywall Repairs, Not New Drywall


I know exactly what you are talking about. I think it is just a difference in how porous the new repair is in contrast to the rest of the wall.
What type of primer are you using?
Once the repair is sanded I roll on one good quality acrylic primer, and feather out the primer a good bit larger area than the repair. I then finish with two coats of latex paint.
I think the problem maybe in not getting enough primer on the repair to prevent it from absorbing some of the finish paint which then shows.
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Old 01-06-2012, 09:23 AM   #4
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Re: Priming & Painting Drywall Repairs, Not New Drywall


Agree with the above about the primer. Least amount of problems with ob primer. The best in my opinion Zin Cover Stain - hot dog roller for small areas.

Next but down the chart - Zin Bulls Eye 123 latex high build primer. With it you get quite a thick coverage 1/2" roller. Did 30 patches in a daylit basement --- couldn't see a thing.

Get rid of - never use - any Kilz latex primer or any Kilz latex anything.Kilz 2 has won hands down the award as the worst paint product on the market in each of the last 20 years......

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Old 01-06-2012, 11:42 AM   #5
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Re: Priming & Painting Drywall Repairs, Not New Drywall


Thanks, will dump the Kilz.

So you just spot prime with one coat of the ob primer but you don't prime the whole wall right? Or does it depend on the sheen of the old paint?

I really prefer water based for the reduced odor and easy cleanup, so might try the bullseye 123.

I'm bidding a higher end repair with extensive damage so want it to come out really good. So what about 2 coats of bullseye 123, spot primed followed by 1 coat of a quality paint (slightly darker paint so will tint the primer)?
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Old 01-06-2012, 12:17 PM   #6
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Re: Priming & Painting Drywall Repairs, Not New Drywall


Thanks for getting my attn again as I re -read my post earlier and left something out.

The 30 patches in the basement - I spot primed (using a roller) them with Cover Stain ob first. There is no other primer that will lock up the area as well to counter drying mud, bubbles and compatibility issues. The next coats of latex anything will far less likely to lift off the patched area if you use ob primer.

If you continue to get some lift or the patches need to be skimmed again prime with the ob primer again.

You will not need 2 coats of Zin Bulls Eye. One will be enough. As said even after the Bulls Eye you may have to skim w/ dw compound again in some areas. Let that Bulls Eye dry thoroughly (read the label - a couple of hours) or it will peel off and you'll have to skim it out - its so thick.

**Red Alert - Let me correct something.

I mean Zin Bulls Eye Primer Sealer (not 123) Its a high build primer. I use it when there is a lot of patching as high build means more leveling properties of the primer.
http://www.rustoleumibg.com/images/t...e_10_15_10.pdf

The 123 wb is not a high build but a premium latex primer.
http://www.rustoleumibg.com/images/t...I_10_15_10.pdf

I don't know what you have there, kind of stipple on the walls etc but both primers can be lightly pole sanded and then 2 coats of finish paint.

About the odors - everybody is into the low odor stuff but you just gotta use that Cover Stain ob or you'll get behind imo ? Run a box fan and everything will work out better. Especially skimming with dw compound.
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Old 01-06-2012, 12:34 PM   #7
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Re: Priming & Painting Drywall Repairs, Not New Drywall


You don't need to tint the primer unless its a deep accent finish color. The Zin primers dry flat - grey.

Are your repairs to dw or plaster ? Sometimes high end means a very smooth dw or plaster finish. In that case you have to pole sand, then use 1/4 or 3/8 knap Purdy rollers to get a smooth finish rather than a stipple. Its going to take longer.
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Old 01-06-2012, 05:33 PM   #8
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Re: Priming & Painting Drywall Repairs, Not New Drywall


It's the texture difference between the patch (smoother) and the wall. I have yet to see a patch that couldn't be found from the side. I don't care how good you are. Unless you are coating the patch with as many layers as the wall, it will always be a little off.

The great thing about drywall is usually good is good enough. You don't have to be perfectly. There are so many imperfections that it is a little futile to try and get a patch to blend perfect. The corners and seams will always have spots that just aren't perfect.

I do love the attitude that "I can always do better." Striving for perfection is a noble character trait. Just don't let it keep you up at night!
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Old 01-06-2012, 10:29 PM   #9
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Re: Priming & Painting Drywall Repairs, Not New Drywall


We don't have much plaster in this area so the wall finishes in the higher end homes are mostly drywall with skip trowel or smooth finish.

The house I was bidding wasn't expensive but was done very nicely. All the trim was painted a darker color, nails filled and sanded, and all trim was caulked. The texture was very even and a nicer job overall.

But I had to submit the bid today and found out someone beat me by a couple thousand and they got the job (my bid was 12,500) so I won't be doing that one, but will have others to bid in the near future.

TNT, I agree that it's impossible to get a perfect blend, but I can get a near perfect match to the overall texture such as the size of the knockdown, etc. And I specialize in being able to match and blend any texture. Have only had 1 texture I couldn't match perfectly, and it wasn't my job. I just got called in for my expertise but we ended up skimming the whole wall and doing our best to match it, which was close enough that way.

But yes, I'm always looking for ways to do things better, lol. I know one can always learn no matter how long you've been in a trade, or how old you are. And I don't lose sleep over it, just strive to do better next time, if possible.

Thanks for all the input on this from everyone anyway.
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Old 01-08-2012, 11:12 AM   #10
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Re: Priming & Painting Drywall Repairs, Not New Drywall


If you sprayed the rest when the paint go 's through a paint gun it gets ground as it go 's through the tip and changes the sheen you mite spray your patches these primers don't need to be used. use the primer you used on the rest primer needs to dry over night or its will shine through also if you cant spray the touch ups spray into a can and roll it on paint has different drying levels your paint mite not match sheen tell totally dry 6 weeks if you rolled the other coats the problem is probably not letting the primer dry give primer time to dry one day one answer is paint the hole wall to make sheer the paint matches I for got to mention give the drywall time to dry one day the dry wall should be dry buy now. all these answers require time usually skipped when wanting to get don
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Old 01-08-2012, 12:31 PM   #11
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Re: Priming & Painting Drywall Repairs, Not New Drywall


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If you sprayed the rest, when the paint goes through a paint gun, it gets grounded as it goes through the tip. This changes the sheen. You might spray your patches. These primers don't need to be used. Use the primer you used on the rest. Primer needs to dry over night or it will shine through. Also if you can't spray the touch ups, spray into a can and roll it on . Paint has different drying levels. Your paint might not match sheen till totally dry, 6 weeks. If you rolled the other coats, the problem is probably not letting the primer dry. Give the primer time to dry one day. One answer is, paint the whole wall to make sure the paint matches. I for got to mention, give the drywall time to dry one day. The drywall should be dry by now. All of these answers require time, usually skipped when wanting to get done.
There, that's better.
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Old 01-08-2012, 12:40 PM   #12
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Re: Priming & Painting Drywall Repairs, Not New Drywall


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It's the texture difference between the patch (smoother) and the wall. I have yet to see a patch that couldn't be found from the side. I don't care how good you are. Unless you are coating the patch with as many layers as the wall, it will always be a little off.

The great thing about drywall is usually good is good enough. You don't have to be perfectly. There are so many imperfections that it is a little futile to try and get a patch to blend perfect. The corners and seams will always have spots that just aren't perfect.

I do love the attitude that "I can always do better." Striving for perfection is a noble character trait. Just don't let it keep you up at night!
While I totally get what you are saying I am 100% ocd with my drywall finishes. Those little spots especially in the corners are always addressed during punch out. I am notorious for the blue tape massacre of a "finished" wall. The guys say here comes hefer "which I think is spanish for boss" with the blue tape shotgun. The quality of the drywall finish and paint job is what often times separates a good job from a great one.
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:35 PM   #13
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Re: Priming & Painting Drywall Repairs, Not New Drywall


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While I totally get what you are saying I am 100% ocd with my drywall finishes. Those little spots especially in the corners are always addressed during punch out. I am notorious for the blue tape massacre of a "finished" wall. The guys say here comes hefer "which I think is spanish for boss" with the blue tape shotgun. The quality of the drywall finish and paint job is what often times separates a good job from a great one.
I am the same way, anal and OCD. But I learned a long time ago that I can stress out over the simplest of things for nothing. There is a point at which you begin to make the spots worse by over working them. It's a double edge sword.

We'll take a light to the wall and shoot it from one end to the other to try and catch as much as we can. The biggest problem with drywall is it's impossible to shoot it from every angle and not effect another angle.

That's why I say sometimes you have to put down the trowel and leave it alone. 99% of people are not going to notice the 1% of imperfections that stick out like a sore thumb to us.
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:36 PM   #14
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Re: Priming & Painting Drywall Repairs, Not New Drywall


I'm doing a small addition right now for a customer who is REALY fussy.

She's a past client, so I already knew this. We just boarded and taped this past week. We skimed the whole thing. It's a cathedral ceiling also.

Didn't really take that long. So now everything will be the same texture.

For high end work that's the way we do it. No differences between dw paper and the taped joints.
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Old 01-08-2012, 04:40 PM   #15
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Re: Priming & Painting Drywall Repairs, Not New Drywall


Problem with patches as someone said was you loose stipple. Make sure you build it up on them, go with a heavier nap if you need to.
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Old 01-12-2012, 04:39 PM   #16
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Re: Priming & Painting Drywall Repairs, Not New Drywall


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I'm doing a small addition right now for a customer who is REALY fussy.

She's a past client, so I already knew this. We just boarded and taped this past week. We skimed the whole thing. It's a cathedral ceiling also.

Didn't really take that long. So now everything will be the same texture.

For high end work that's the way we do it. No differences between dw paper and the taped joints.
Is that what I should do on the ceiling I am patching? Small 10' x 18' but has a full width patch where I took out a laundry closet and 2 wide patches/repairs of light fixture holes at either end. This room will be ceiling and side lit and has a side window. As the unpatched area has an existing finish (latex) how can I best blend all together for a seamless look? Yes, I probably would have been better off redoing the entire ceiling but ... Any advice on primer and finish? Thanks.
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Old 01-12-2012, 06:54 PM   #17
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Re: Priming & Painting Drywall Repairs, Not New Drywall


If you are noticing a difference in texture have you tried rolling on the primer, rolling on one coat of paint,then rolling the entire wall? If you do that I think thats as good a match as you will get without skimming the entire wall.
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Old 01-12-2012, 07:57 PM   #18
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Re: Priming & Painting Drywall Repairs, Not New Drywall


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If you are noticing a difference in texture have you tried rolling on the primer, rolling on one coat of paint,then rolling the entire wall? If you do that I think thats as good a match as you will get without skimming the entire wall.
Thank you for that advice. I have not started any kind of finish - still in the mud and sand phase, but I have been reading many posts here on CT about good painting and drywall practice and am more aware than I used to be of potential problems. I'm asking here to try to avoid an oversight that will chase me. What should I use to prime the entire ceiling surface that will cover the old latex paint and the new patches. Then how do I proceed from there, assuming that I do a good job with feathering my patches into the whole ceiling. See, last year I would have just been oblivious to all that might go wrong, oh well - thanks CT
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Old 01-12-2012, 08:34 PM   #19
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Re: Priming & Painting Drywall Repairs, Not New Drywall


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Thank you for that advice. I have not started any kind of finish - still in the mud and sand phase, but I have been reading many posts here on CT about good painting and drywall practice and am more aware than I used to be of potential problems. I'm asking here to try to avoid an oversight that will chase me. What should I use to prime the entire ceiling surface that will cover the old latex paint and the new patches. Then how do I proceed from there, assuming that I do a good job with feathering my patches into the whole ceiling. See, last year I would have just been oblivious to all that might go wrong, oh well - thanks CT
What I meant was to roll the patch with primer, paint, then roll the entire wall or ceiling. If it's a ceiling it should be flat paint and it will look great. If it's a wall it should be fine unless you're using semi gloss or gloss.The paint sheen makes all the difference.. Flat paint you could pull the mud tight and paint and barely see it. Try that with eggshell and it'll stick out like a turd in a punch bowl...the shinier the paint is the harder it is to patch and match the existing wall..
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:29 PM   #20
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Re: Priming & Painting Drywall Repairs, Not New Drywall


I had that problem too. Doing efficiencies. There was always a sheen on the patches. I agree on waiting a day for the primer to dry, but can we just use a heat gun to dry the primer and get the same result?

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