Primer Issue

cynthiann

does good drywall work need primer? Two coats of good paint seem to be working well so far, but the issue has come up while interviewing with a builder.

ProWallGuy

Builder's never want to pay for primer.
I believe all new drywall/joint compound needs to be primed.
I get tired of seeing paint failure's due to builders being cheapskates.

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cynthiann

What will happen if not primed?

ProWallGuy

All possibles:
flashing
stain bleed through
adhesion failure
multiple coats required for coverage

Read this.

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Digital Murals Installation

johnjamesalaska

If your final coat has a sheen to it you should use a primer. To fill the sponge (drywall/mud) with primer and not paint. Primer cost less than paint. It should. If it doesnt your paying to much. Primer for drywall that is. Blowes ... I mean lowes sells first coat by valspar for 40 bucks per five gallons. I get a drywall primer for 29 dollars at Rodda. If you use a paint with a glossy sheen you may end up with inconsistent sheen.

KENNEDY

Using a quality primer also evens out the texture differences between the paper face and the finished joint on the drywall. As far as the price goes, my exterior primers cost just about the same as the paint, but the time I save on call backs after a couple of years is definately worth it. Quality materials = quality jobs, why do it half a$$ed?

slickshift

Yes
Always
It's for adhesion purposes, among others

Just because the paint won't always fail immediately on-primered drywall, that doesn't mean it doesn't need it

Exactly
Hey, don't get me wrong
More work for me ya know
But telling the proud owners of a three years old home/remodel that the reason their paint is failing is that their builder hosed them on the paint job by not priming, it's just sad really
And now they are going to have to pay me extra to fix it

firemike

I agree 100% with Slickshift -

You can put two coats of paint on an old sh**wagon and it will look great - for a while. In the professional world, primers and not an option, but a necessesity for a proper job.

Harry

Hi,

The real question is whether or not you need a PRIMER or a SEALER.

Simply using a primer does NOTHING to guarantee evenness of a coating.

Primers are used to fill in imperfections and have low resins, allowing finish coats to grab the primer.

Sealers are used to stop paint form being absorbed unevenly, allowing for an even finish. Sealers have high resins, low pigment.

There is a big difference between primers and sealers and every painter should know this.

Now, if ya go with a good PVA primer/sealer...you should be golden...

Thanks.
Harry

cynthiann

Wow, thanks guys. I'm glad I learned this early on. I'll get after my builder to spring for a prime/seal. Will a good paint ever cover well enough in 1 coat after sealing? We deal with SW.

thanks again...love this site,
cindy

slickshift

No
There's no such thing as a true one-coat paint

If there was, we'd be all over that


well, you may be able to "get away with" one coat at times, but it is "getting away with" it, and all that that implies
It'll also be in a sort of "looks OK" sort of way rather than "just like the swatch" way

cynthiann

OK, so that leads to the next question or questions...

can have my primer tinted?...so as not to have to put on a 'primary prime/seal' coat?...and/or should I be charging a little more for a primary coat. I'm in KY and I think 1.25 /sf is pretty good for our quality. I'm thinking a coat of seal would take about 4 hours more per thousand/sf.

Again, new here and thanks espesially to slick for the feedback.

rhythm-method

Hey all

Cynthiann, you read my mind in tinted primers. What do the pros think? I have had really mixed results - some great, some nightmares.

Also, is there a particular brand of primer/sealer you would recommend over the others? I have used BM Fresh Start over the years with some pretty good results. Is there a more "pro-oriented" brand I should be looking for?

Cheers,
Graeme

slickshift

Sure
I don't
Maaaaybe I might go gray with some of those deep colors...maybe
Really SWP Deep Accents kinda blows the need for that, BM maybe I'd grey up the primer on a deep red or something

Other than that I don't see the point, unless you're trying to only do one color coat (top coat)

Besides, once it's tinted, I can't use it on any other projects, like my house


I'm not sure where you're going with that...
New Drywall I tend to use a primer/sealer or plain primer-tinted or not
That's one coat
Then two color coats
That's pretty standard

...than the color coats?
Yes, the primer coat always takes longer to apply, the top coats less

slickshift

Hey Graeme, Nice Avatar!


Fresh Start? For new drywall?
Yeah that should work, seems a little overkill to me
But I've found for new drywall the Pittsburg SpeedHide Primer/Sealer really kicks butt for a "contractor-grade" product
Really it holds up to the best I've used for non-problem new drywall, and it's cheap
I know I'm always "cheap paints and tools don't save you money... blah blah...", but I really am a cheap bstrd
lol
I have been known to rinse out my tray and pot liners

CarlW

Well, I've been painting new construction homes for 20 years with 2 coats of flat, no primer. Sure, if the specs call for a washable paint, then that means the specs call for a primer. I'd sell the builder on a primer system too with the flat if I thought it would help but I just don't see a point in using the primer if we are topcoating with 9 buck a gallon garbage flat. But really my question is, how does the paint fail if no primer is used? I've never seen that.

ProWallGuy

Carl, I mainly do wallpaper. That is where most of the paint failures I've seen have occured. I can prime over the garbage flat all day long, but when I install the paper, and it dries, it pulls on all the coats underneath. This is where I've seen paint pull off right down to the bare drywall. My primer don't do squat if the underlying layers aren't bonded well in the first place. I also do adhesion tests before hanging anything. Use a razor blade, and lightly cut an X into the paint, and lay a piece of masking tape on it. Yank it off, and if the paint comes off with it, the surface ain't stable enough for w/c.
The past 2-3 years, I've been priming garbage flat with Gardz or DrawTite, which seems to penetrate more and alleviate the problem.
Read this article, it explains it nicely.

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CarlW

Okay, well that makes sense. I took paint failing to mean paint peeling off the walls or something. I would prime then, but I don't think anyone is hanging wallpaper in the homes I paint, are they? How is the wallpapering business doing these days?

ProWallGuy

I have to add this. 3 times in the past 5-6 years, I have encountered massive paint failures in which no w/c was involved. First one was in a 5 yr old house, painted builders flat. We screened the walls, and applied 2 coats of BM Regal Matte. 2 days later, small cracks appeared, and curled up from the wall, about the shape of a quarter. When picked at, whole sheets of paint 4' X 4', would peel off, down to bare drywall. It only stuck at the raw tape seams. It was obvious that it failed because it was painted over when very dusty. You could rub your hand on the back of the paint and your hand would be covered with drywall dust. I ate the cost on that one. That job made me add a clause to my contract which saved my butt on the last 2.
These were up high, on vaulted walls, and ceilings. same fialure, only not as big. I really can't be certain why they failed, only assume it got hot and dry up there, and eventually the bond crumbled and failed.

Maybe, maybe not. Who knows what they do 5, 10 years down the road.

So-so. I make a better living at the high-end niche stuff, some commercial, and mural stuff. If I didn't paint, I'd be struggling.

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Digital Murals Installation

slickshift

Good discusion
I'd just like to comment on
You wouldn't see it doing new construction
Ever
That's my point
You'd have to have been doing re-paints/wall-coverings for the last 20 to see it