Powder Room Paint Job Underbid - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Eric S · 09-04-2006, 10:58 AM

I have been charging an hourly rate of 15.hr for all of the work I do as a young Handyman (34 yr old). This rate is charged for all the paint jobs I take on as well...Not anymore! From now on I will be charging a $25.hr minimum zero exceptions.

I made the mistake of telling cust that I could do a powder rm in 2hrs. It took me an 1/2 to 1hr to remove hardware from walls, cover the light, and floor. 2 & 1/2hrs to paint and 45mins to clear out the powder rm and re-install hardware. Result: sticking to my word and only charging $30.00 for the job. To make things worse, I was working in there with a six foot ladder.

This was a sand textured paint. I told the lady that I had no previous experience with this type of paint. On one wall especially it seemed to reveal the sections as I painted them instead of it all being blended together (no paint lines). They only asked about it not seeming upset...The powder room looked great anyway.

Q: (Paint lines) Is this specific to this type of paint or was I doing something wrong?

Q: I got too big for my britches and decided to do cut in's for all corner surfaces. Is this stuff a little bitchy to do cutting in with or, was that my imagination?

It would have looked better if I'd used the tape on ceiling. The ceiling was not painted only the walls were. Tape was used on floor molding...looked professional when done.

Q: Painters usually have the toilet removed so painting can be done behind it? I did not bother...my bid was a little low for that!

**slickshift** · 09-04-2006, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric S

Q: (Paint lines) Is this specific to this type of paint or was I doing something wrong?

Sand paint?
Probably both

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric S

Q: I got too big for my britches and decided to do cut in's for all corner surfaces. Is this stuff a little bitchy to do cutting in with or, was that my imagination?

Sand paint?
Probably both

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric S

Q: Painters usually have the toilet removed so painting can be done behind it?

Not usually no
I can work around them pretty well
But I will if it's needed
Technically, in all the states I've worked in, you need a lic. plumber to do that, and it's been an avg. of 5.5 times (X) your total bathroom "bid" just to have the toilet moved

On another note:
You just repainted a bathroom for $30
I'd like to ask that you rot in hell, but I suppose you'll be out of business soon, and anyone that would hire someone to paint their bathroom for $30 isn't really a potential customer of mine anyway, so I guess that doesn't really reflect on me personally or professionally
But I can't help but think it must give this one person, and her friends and family, a cheapened opinion of my profession

I'd suggest you look through some old posts here, specifically the handyman type business model examples, and re-think your business plan

Brushslingers · 09-04-2006, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slickshift

You just repainted a bathroom for $30
I'd like to ask that you rot in hell.

Really though, sand paint is a faux thing, ya its a pain in the butt and you shoulda taped almost everything and used a dutch roll. I normally use a weenie roller with the top of the toilet off to squeeze behind a toilet without pulling it.

Eric S · 09-04-2006, 02:44 PM

I am in the process of re-evaluating the prices I charge for the jobs that I do.

I have already decided to raise all painting prices to 25.hr. I was working for a lady who overpaid me for work done (General Repairs and Improvements). Her reasoning was that no one had ever charged her less than $25.hr.

Weenie roller...Good solution. I found myself wondering if that would work. The customer was not too perfectionist oriented and most likely will not make a mention about back of toilet. She has since been made aware of my updated painting fees and agrees that is what I should be charging.

AAPaint · 09-04-2006, 04:08 PM

I didn't see this thread, but I responded in another thread you spoke of this in. What I said was don't discuss your hourly rate with the customer. To add to that, don't discuss how many hours you think each portion will take, because you have to add some fudge factor to it anyway in case you're wrong.

Learn to properly understand your hourly rate. Add up the cost of everything say for the last month. Things like fuel, ins, phone, everthing you pay out money for to run your business. Don't forget yearly things like licenses etc. Divide that number by total hours worked for the month and see what it's really costing you to do business. What about advertising? If you plan to do that, add it into the budget as well.

It's really hard to tell where you're going if you don't know where you're coming from. You should at least have a basic idea of your daily operating costs including what you want to make for yourself, and a profit percentage for your company.

KellyPainting · 09-04-2006, 04:12 PM

Can you fly down and paint mine...I'll give ya $40..plus travel of course.

**Teetorbilt** · 09-04-2006, 04:25 PM

I always throw in even longer range items such as vehicle depreciation, repairs, tires and projected replacement vehicle costs.

The cheapest way to keep track is to go to the office supply and buy a ledger and keep it in the truck. Every time that you spend a dime, write it down. At the end of one month I think that you'll go

maj · 09-04-2006, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teetorbilt

I always throw in even longer range items such as vehicle depreciation, repairs, tires and projected replacement vehicle costs.

The cheapest way to keep track is to go to the office supply and buy a ledger and keep it in the truck. Every time that you spend a dime, write it down. At the end of one month I think that you'll go

Jon F · 09-04-2006, 04:42 PM

I mean, this has got to be a joke or something. First off, you aren't a young (34) anything, you are what is called a middle-aged lowballer. Just makes no sense. Why????? Go drive a truck, you can make an easy 50K a year, everyone is hiring. Why not do something like that, actually MAKE money, and not destroy a trade. I say this is a fake poster. Who is it Nathan??

**Teetorbilt** · 09-04-2006, 04:44 PM

He's young to me, I'd like to replay 34.

Steve Richards · 09-04-2006, 05:03 PM

Sometimes I'll work by the hour. But when I do I won't give the client more than a (large) ballpark estimate of how long the job will take.

If I tell him/her 40.00 per hour, and then tell them it'll take me 4 hours...I just bid the job at 160.00.

If I'm going to BID a job, then I'll figure more like 50 or 60 an hour. If something goes wrong (takes longer than I thought it would) then it's my problem. Working by the hour, It's the clients problem.
Him taking that worry/risk off my shoulders is why he gets me for 40.00 an hour instead of 50+.

I hope that makes sense...

Eric S · 09-04-2006, 05:41 PM

This thread has been very useful info to someone like me who has no experience with the management of a shoe-string business.

I adverise that I provide these services:
assembly of pre-fab furniture
installation of shelving systems
painting
general repairs
cleaning and organizing
installation of sound reinforcement systems

I am planning to take a thorough look at these services to decide how much I need bid bid these jobs for...it is foolish to assign a one hourly rate to them all.

Advertising Cost:
$700.00 one time fee for this lap top.

I can advertise on a website for free and have recieved enough business from that website to realize btwn 3-9 hundred in a month (gross). I also get on the internet to do the advertising for free at Panera Bread. This is only a part time thing...I will make it full time when I have a complete learned trade under my belt or when I know enough to be able to make a living on it or have gotten sick enough of the people I work for.

Out of the above posts the usefuls are:
+ A ledger to know operation costs.
+ Don't tell anyone how much you want per hour...learn to bid the entire job and include the fudge factor in the bid.

Thanks for helpful suggestions.

maj · 09-04-2006, 06:37 PM

Very good start for learning there Eric.......

Another key thing to keep in mind...... Remember you have to pay self-employment taxes at the end of the year, provided you make money. Then after your first year, you'll have to make quarterly estimates.

For me, that is the only place I struggle, saving for the taxes every quarter. By the time I pay in sales taxes, payroll taxes(federal & state), unemployment,work comp, etc., I barely have managed to save enough for uncle sam for income taxes.

**slickshift** · 09-04-2006, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric S

+ Don't tell anyone how much you want per hour...

That's not true for many handyman service businesses
Many use a minimum price for showing up and working for an hour, and a hourly fee after that
Do a search on this site
There's guys that get remodels on hourly rates
Some customers like that

It's just that if you want a fair wage, you've got some rethinking to do
They don't charge 15...or 25...or 35 dollars an hour for a reason

If you are thinking "I'd like to get $15 an hour", that's fine
But what do you charge?
Not $15 an hour

There's a worker in an office
He gets $15 an hour right?
Good wage
But where did he get the pencil from
The owner
Where'd he get the phone?
The owner
Who pays the electric bill, the rent on the building, the water bill so he can wash his hands, the lady to answer the phone, to route the call to ring on his desk so he can use the pencil to write an order to do his job to make money for the company?
Who pays for his coffee break, his lunch hour his sick time his vacation?
The time when there's nothing to do but wait for the phone to ring?
Who pays the accountant or the bookkeeper to figure out how much he gets paid and to write the check...who pays for the paper the check is written on?
The owner

So, he may collect $15 an hour for showing up and writing orders, but it costs the owner way more than $15 an hour to let him do his job

Guess what?
You are the owner

If you want to make $15 an hour as the technician that's fine, but the owner still has to pay for the phone answerer (you), the salesman (you), the phone bill, the paper to write the address on, the estimator (you), the gas for the truck, the marketing dept. (you), a bathroom for you to wash your hands in (your house/shop)....

You've got overhead my friend
I think you should figure out what it is, and figure out what you need per hour to cover those things
Yeah some of your figure will be wrong at first, but you can fine tune them as you go

You've also got to take 30% right off the top and put it aside for taxes
That's another thing that's done for you when you work for somebody
$15 an hour may be a fair wage for your services, but "the company" has to charge way more than $15 an hour to pay you $15 an hour

DelW · 09-04-2006, 10:10 PM

The only T&M work I do is wallpaper removal(cause ya never know how its gonna go, got burned once and learned my lesson

) Everything else is bid as a total quote. As far as what you charge, the point about self employment taxes is a excellent one, one way to look at it is roughly 30% of your wages goes to taxes, charge accordingly.

joedonuts · 09-06-2006, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slickshift

That's not true for many handyman service businesses
Many use a minimum price for showing up and working for an hour, and a hourly fee after that
Do a search on this site
There's guys that get remodels on hourly rates
Some customers like that

It's just that if you want a fair wage, you've got some rethinking to do
They don't charge 15...or 25...or 35 dollars an hour for a reason

If you are thinking "I'd like to get $15 an hour", that's fine
But what do you charge?
Not $15 an hour

There's a worker in an office
He gets $15 an hour right?
Good wage
But where did he get the pencil from
The owner
Where'd he get the phone?
The owner
Who pays the electric bill, the rent on the building, the water bill so he can wash his hands, the lady to answer the phone, to route the call to ring on his desk so he can use the pencil to write an order to do his job to make money for the company?
Who pays for his coffee break, his lunch hour his sick time his vacation?
The time when there's nothing to do but wait for the phone to ring?
Who pays the accountant or the bookkeeper to figure out how much he gets paid and to write the check...who pays for the paper the check is written on?
The owner

So, he may collect $15 an hour for showing up and writing orders, but it costs the owner way more than $15 an hour to let him do his job

Guess what?
You are the owner

If you want to make $15 an hour as the technician that's fine, but the owner still has to pay for the phone answerer (you), the salesman (you), the phone bill, the paper to write the address on, the estimator (you), the gas for the truck, the marketing dept. (you), a bathroom for you to wash your hands in (your house/shop)....

You've got overhead my friend
I think you should figure out what it is, and figure out what you need per hour to cover those things
Yeah some of your figure will be wrong at first, but you can fine tune them as you go

You've also got to take 30% right off the top and put it aside for taxes
That's another thing that's done for you when you work for somebody
$15 an hour may be a fair wage for your services, but "the company" has to charge way more than $15 an hour to pay you $15 an hour

I like this post Slick!

**slickshift** · 09-06-2006, 08:30 PM

Well, thanks Joe

Eric S · 09-14-2006, 12:20 AM

Thanks to all.

Have already used advice given when possible/prudent and plan on writing some of this down and fitting it into the structure of my operations.

Eric S · 09-14-2006, 12:30 AM

These people (one's I did Powder Rm Paint job for) called me asking if I could install two curtain rods for them. I told them my price (minimum fee) and the wife asked if I could come down by ten dollars. NOPE.

**slickshift** · 09-14-2006, 09:31 PM

Good for you
A minimum fee for your efforts, even though the job itself might not take long, is reasonable
And sticking to what you determined is the minimum you need to do a small job is important