Possible Behr paint problem - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Steve Richards · 11-17-2007, 09:15 AM

I looked at an interior job yesterday. The lady brought out a can of Behr semigloss to show me the color, and then showed me a little hallway they'd painted with it.

White knockdown painted to brown (not actual color name).

Covered in one coat (she said anyhow).

I told her I'd be using Ben Moore, and would figure on/contract for one coat as well.

Possible problem; I think there's an excellent chance this (top line) BM won't cover in 1 coat.

THEN she's gonna say : Well..then let's use Behr paint, cuz we know it'll cover in one!

To that, my reply should be??

I can only come up with: "That's because it's thick and sticky and nasty to work with, so maybe you should shove it up yer..."

But that don't seem too professional

**ProWallGuy** · 11-17-2007, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Richards

THEN she's gonna say : Well..then let's use Behr paint, cuz we know it'll cover in one!

To that, my reply should be??

Explain to her that two thins coats are always better than one thick coat.

A W Smith · 11-17-2007, 11:35 AM

I always use benjamin moore. I wont use that behr s***. It belongs in the forest.

**slickshift** · 11-17-2007, 05:12 PM

I only bid for two
It's the only way to guaranty it'll cover and last
The only way I've even come close to bidding one when the customer insists, is to bid for two and say I'll have them inspect it after one
If they think it's fine, I'll give them a "substantial" discount
That's it
I've done this maybe once in the last few years

If you bid for one, and the Behr Crap doesn't cut it, do you really think they will think it's the paint?
Hell no...it'll be the lousy painter (you)

Also, if a customer of mine wants Behr, they supply it and the price goes up 30-50% over me supplying a premium paint (and including it in the price)
At that point, few insist on it
If they want to know why...I tell them straight out it's crap (well...depending on the customer maybe "not that good"...harder to work with...takes longer...more coats...etc...)

As for your reply, basically don't bid for one
Tell her it's a quality thing...that's what it is really
It's the only way to guaranty it'll cover and last
W/o two the paint manufacturer won't warranty the product
W/o two you won't warranty your work
If they want Behr, it's still bid for two + PITA 30-50%...they supply the paint

Larman · 11-17-2007, 06:02 PM

I just finished a job where the customer insisted on Behrs, it is the absolute worst paint. I had to repaint some white trim and it would even cover the same color. It took three coats. I will be charging extra from here on out if the customer wants behrs paint from here on out.

A.W.Davis · 11-18-2007, 12:00 AM

Yes Behr is horrible!

The previous homeowners in my house had the trim painted in Behr paint a few years back just before we moved in. When I went to paint some of my new trim the stuff was thick and went on horribly!

Needless to say, I took it into Kelley Moore and got the paint color matched....

much better!

Steve Richards · 11-18-2007, 06:43 AM

Does anyone know exactly WHY Behr is so much harder to work with than BM or SW?
Is it inferior resins, cheap titanium dioxide...too much clay/solids???

BM used to put the percentage of each ingredient in its makeup on the side of the can.

Anyone know where we might be able to compare the basic ingredients/ formulations for Behr vs BM?

I think it'd be more professional if I could say to a homeowner: I don't use Behr products because they formulate it using too much (or too little) __________.

Instead of "I don't use that because it's crap".

DelW · 11-18-2007, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A W Smith

I always use benjamin moore. I wont use that behr s***. It belongs in the forest.

Good One, I'll have to remember that line.

Steve Richards · 11-25-2007, 10:11 AM

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load...352115965.html

plazaman · 11-25-2007, 10:25 AM

"I've used Behr, BM and SW paints. Of the 3, BM is the best, next is Behr and SW is dead last.
It is harder to apply than BM but I've used it in a majority of rooms in my house and have had no problems. 2 coats usually do the trick where we've had to use 4 with SW. It runs a little but again, not as bad as SW.

However once its on, you cannot tell the difference between Behr and BM. It wears like iron and looks smooth and even on the walls. They have a great collection of colors and its inexpensive. If you paint for a living, BM is probably the best but for a do-it-yourselfer, I think Behr works just as well and it is certainly economical. I belive Consumer reports rated it as #1. "

LOL

Steve Richards · 11-25-2007, 11:44 AM

My point in posting that link...

Is that more and more people that are (ignorantly) satisfied with Behr paint, will want/demand that we professionals use it in their homes.

For us to say: "I don't use Behr because it's crap" will only make them NOT use us!

To me..this is a growing problem. I hate using it, but I'm addicted to eating.

And before you say "It's our job to educate them"...read through some of those posts.

Tell someone that what they LIKE is crap...and they'll only look for someone (another painter) that will agree with them that it's not.

Any Season · 11-25-2007, 11:54 AM

Here are 6 words that will make you more money: Benjamin Moore Super Spec Eggshell Enamel. It is near exact to BM Regal and it is half the price and the coverage is excellent. I always bid for 2 full coats and get the same result out of one full w/ a touchup cut and roll....and for lighter colors depending on your pricing you will get it for under $20/gal. (for whites and pastel tint bases I pay around $15/gal.) You will not be disappointed.

Steve Richards · 11-25-2007, 12:03 PM

thanks Anyseason

I've been using BM almost exclusively for over 25 years. I'm pretty familiar with all their lines.

The point to this thread is: People are wanting me to use Behr instead.

When I tell them I don't use Behr...they're starting to ask why not...and my reason needs to start being better than "it's crap"

Steve Richards · 11-25-2007, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A W Smith

I always use benjamin moore. I wont use that behr s***. It belongs in the forest.

I agree with the others..that's very clever.

But is that what you tell you prospective clients?

What if they INSIST on Behr?

Do you walk?

What percent of jobs will you able to walk away from, before you're out of business?

**slickshift** · 11-25-2007, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Richards

But is that what you tell you prospective clients?

What if they INSIST on Behr?

Do you walk?

What percent of jobs will you able to walk away from, before you're out of business?

Most don't "insist" when I lay out the pricing for them
I can usually convince them...it's not that hard
The pricing (with me supplying the premium materials) is usually enough to do it
The added PITA charge seals it

I may have lost a job or two because of it (though I doubt it)
But with that crap...it's no loss really

What it comes down to is I don't let customers spec materials for my job

That's insane
What if they all want squished berry juice on their walls?...or manure?
Same thing really...really...I'm not kidding...think about it
What if they insist on two coats wild boar manure?

Hey I'll listen, take suggestions, try something new...that's all fine
But they'll be an extra charge if it's something I'm not familiar with, and if it's something that I know will add time, materials, and frustration the extra charges are a no-brainer

**slickshift** · 11-25-2007, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Richards

What if they INSIST on Behr?

Like they are the painting experts?
Lol
If this happens, I think you need to instill in them, a little more confidence in you

Steve Richards · 11-25-2007, 02:01 PM

ok..

Customer: I would like 2 coats of wild boar manure on my walls.

You: I'm sorry, I won't apply that.

Customer: I've had boar manure on my walls for years now, and I really like it..so do all my neighbors.

You: Yes well, I'm a professional...I won't use it.

Customer: Well I know someone who will, Thanks for your time.

Steve Richards · 11-25-2007, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slickshift

Like they are the painting experts?
Lol

Don't you know that anyone who's ever painted their bedroom is an expert?

Steve Richards · 11-25-2007, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slickshift

But they'll be an extra charge if it's something I'm not familiar with, and if it's something that I know will add time, materials, and frustration

THAT is the kind of advice I was looking for with this thread..

I can see myself telling someone: I'm not very familiar with Behr, but I've used it enough to know that it adds a lot of frustration to the job for me, so I'd have to charge (*blank*/one million dollars*) extra.

Thanks

Larman · 11-26-2007, 07:28 AM

Hindsight is 20/20. I can tell you this, I lost money on my most recent paint job because of Behr paint. I could not get their white simi-gloss to cover over white semi-gloss. It took three coats to paint all window trim and moldings. Im not exactly sure what Behrs costs, around $16-18 a gallon? I think it would be an easy sell to tell the customer to "upgrade" to BM superspec for around $18-20 a gallon. I think if you approach it the right way they will go with the better paint.