Please help me with my confidence - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

GoodPainter · 07-28-2006, 09:08 AM

Hello everyone,

I started my Painting biz earlier this year

I just got back from doing my first actually true estimate for painting.
The customer was needing his garage painted- interior.
I arrived at his house and we did chat for a few minutes.
--He lives in a new devlp. drives a conv bmw n volvo
I told him about my situation that i'm 4th generation painter and i'm starting out part time with current FT job( He takes his family to my sis hair cut shop)

The garage (new drywall)was a 2 car 20x20 with 10ft high ceiling he said not to use Lowes or HD paint and I let him know that i wouldn't. My paint BM, SW or i would like to use Coronado (maybe the Ceramiguard) since he has kids and it is a garage. it can be wiped with ease.
Total sf of wall space is around 1080sf
He said new primer would have to be used and i told his yes it did.
The garage was drywalled about five yrs ago but the seams needed a good sanding and prob more patchn and caulking around some trim.
Also a approx. 4x12 shelf hanging that was plywood and 2x4s
2 door trims and 2 garage door trims wood to be painted

He said to keep separate an est. for the exterior trim around the 2 gar. doors he wantd same color that he had a sample for me to match
about 8-10in wide

My est total was $675 for the int garage and $120 for the ext trim
so total $795 ALL prep, 1 coat of primer and 2 coats of top coat paint

I signed and dated his estimate and told him to give me a call if he liked the price
He was in a hurry to leave so we were done

I did not get to tell him about my 2yr warrty or any othe contract terms and i didnt try to sell on the spot
also didnt let him know bout Free gift card for my sis shop(wouldve been nice to know)

PLEASE let me know if this price is ok
There is so much competition round here but I give top notch quality and detail and offer nice prices
He did say bout the ext gar. trim wasnt primed and was flakin and i agreed, saying new const. is done the fastest and cheapest with expecting the new HO s to repaint

I want to stand firm on my prices and the price is a cheap price for my standards
Please let me know what you think bout my est. and what if anything did I do wrong?

Thanx in advance,
Robert

George Z · 07-28-2006, 09:28 AM

Your price was not expensive,
you may find you lose jobs because your prices are cheap
and you would never know.
Don't try to get cheaper to get jobs.
Find out your true costs, what you want to make
and then there is only one right price:

yours.

Brushslingers · 07-28-2006, 02:24 PM

Your a tad on the cheap side... not bad, but a little. Only thing you did wrong was getting too personal with your client IMO, never tell a client you are working PT as a painter. General chit chat is something like, "I love dogs, have a few myself!" or "My wife would kill me if I tried to buy a car like this... nice!"... never "I'm working this week as a painter to pay my light bill".

Stand firm on your price, you will lose bids but, if you don't... you will never go anywhere. Good luck!

KellyPainting · 07-28-2006, 05:20 PM

your too low.... under $1000.00 is a 1 day job... will it be a one day job?

abonear · 07-28-2006, 05:51 PM

I too think you are on the low side. When you are starting off you wish
all customers will say yes... but think of yourself first. You have expenses and your work is not for free. If you know you do excellent
work hold your self to a standard. Be professional and fair. Usually
the customers will get two more estimate and then they compare.
Or they are just getting an estimate and end up using the money
to buy a new TV. You just never know.

Sometimes the customers make the wrong choice and trust me
they'll come back crawling willing to pay to fix the mess.

Most customers in my area are sooooo picky,..and you have to
have the patients to deal with their changes, demands or mood swings.
There should be an extra Fee for rude customers.

Don't worry,..he'll call you when he is ready.

Richard · 07-28-2006, 07:09 PM

"Only thing you did wrong was getting too personal with your client IMO, never tell a client you are working PT as a painter. General chit chat is something like, "I love dogs, have a few myself!" or "My wife would kill me if I tried to buy a car like this... nice!"... never "I'm working this week as a painter to pay my light bill". <----SO TRUE...

I also am new in the business, though it consumes my whole life..def. NOT a part time gig...anyway.....great answers from all above, but I would like to add something...I am constantly learning to use products that make me faster so I make more money, like 18" rollers, planks, etc... When you look at a job, never give an on the spot estimate. Go home, figure out all supplies needed and (only what I do, not the standard) estimate how long it might take you and multiply that by your standard hourly rate. Add supplies and and profit/error margin.

I tend to charge $10/hr. less than the "big companies", and that, mixed with my very maticulous work, normal advertising, and an awesome advertiser (my wife) gets me tons of work. I would find out what your competition is charging and charge a little less to compete since your new. Also, consider adding a gas surcharge while gas is so high...

Good luck man- hope my blabbing helped

Dave-Raleigh · 07-28-2006, 08:52 PM

I'm not a painter by profession but that seems awful low to me.

Lets say 2 gallons of primer at $25 each, Then 4 gallons of color at $25 each. Those prices are probably cheap too.

4 hours messing around with straightening out the taping/seams. $20 bucks in material for that part.

Spending ,minimum 2 hours getting the supplies/paint and trying to match the paint sample. Travel time, cleanup, etc.

Now how fast can you roll the paint on? I'm going to assume you don't have a sprayer.

Two physical days to do the job if you prep, prime and 1 color coat one day. 2nd coat and trim the next.

Now if you are paying taxes, insurance, want some profit, overhead, etc., it seems $1500 would be a lot more appropriate.

Richard · 07-28-2006, 09:31 PM

Ok...let me help you out-a good primer(SW of course

) will run $20-$30per gal. Finish Paint (SW of course

- a promar product should be fine) will run $20-$30 per gal... I'm not going to say how fast this job will take, due to the fact that I'm not there. But, do: ALL labor hours x hourly rate...+ supplies + overhead (maybe gas surcharge, or profit, or whatever else you will be charging)

Remember to account for all the supplies you might need, if you dont own them already:
Primer, Paint, drops, plastic, tape, roller naps 18", 9", or hotdog size, compound/spackle, sanding spunges/paper, etc.....blah, blah, blah

This being said- if you get thorough you will be fine....you run into problems with what $$$ your making when you arent thorough from the begginning....

ps...dont charge the customer for the paint store bull...just go before the job- you would have to drive there anyway, consider this as a stop on the way (when you work for others, they usually start the clock on the job...I tend to keep this theory in my own business, I'm not a greedy man, unless provoked

)

GoodPainter · 07-28-2006, 10:42 PM

Thank you guys and girls for all the reply and info

I spat out about the PT thing since i actually read it on this site last night or so saying, to let them know so your not expected to work 12 hours a day to get it done and all that.
He asked me if I planned on doing it FT and I said yes it is in the blood and my heritage. He asked how business was and I told him so far i'm not advertising and i'm getting busi with jobs

I calculated about 15 man hour with fugde added and 7 gal of paint @$30 gal

Ext I added alot of fudge but 3hours and $30 for paint

Yes I wanted to keep my price low for the time until I quit my job or I got too busy, but also since I dont have much to step on as far as references and reputation.
I just have quality and i'm Prob more anal bout my work that any customer could be.--Perfectionism runs in my family so i do have to add into my price just in case i go for more detail( i dont get too crazy)

Thanx and I am waiting for my cust. to call after he gets ready
I will also do a 2 week followup call if I dont hear from them, then i can sell it with my warranty and pics or references
Its warm to know You all care bout my thoughts and feelings

OHH-- Yeah i'll be rollling this one butwishing to spray-- my early xmas present hasnt come yet -- magnum XR9-- i have it on my list

**ProWallGuy** · 07-28-2006, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodPainter

I spat out about the PT thing since i actually read it on this site last night or so saying, to let them know so your not expected to work 12 hours a day to get it done and all that.

I approach that scenario by telling the customer that I was already swamped with work, but if he's willing to pay the price, I will do it in the off hours for them. It's a win-win. You get to do the job at your hours, and they think you are sooooooo good, you are booked for weeks ahead.
And yeah, your price is low.

GoodPainter · 07-30-2006, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProWallGuy

I approach that scenario by telling the customer that I was already swamped with work, but if he's willing to pay the price, I will do it in the off hours for them. It's a win-win. You get to do the job at your hours, and they think you are sooooooo good, you are booked for weeks ahead.
And yeah, your price is low.

PWG
does that mean you charge a higher est. for doing off hour work, like let's say 10-20% higher?
LIke if they want it done quik that you may have to use saturday and charge time n half or double.
It sounds about right that its win win cause yeah they think your going all out (maybe you are) but for me that would be there decision if they want me to work on sat. for them -- just nice to know if they are willing to pay a premium for that.

Thanx
Robert

**ProWallGuy** · 07-30-2006, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodPainter

PWG
does that mean you charge a higher est. for doing off hour work, like let's say 10-20% higher?
LIke if they want it done quik that you may have to use saturday and charge time n half or double.

Definitely, if it cuts into my family/fun time, someone is gonna pay for it.

Brushslingers · 07-30-2006, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProWallGuy

Definitely, if it cuts into my family/fun time, someone is gonna pay for it.

Uhhh... whats family/fun time?

**ProWallGuy** · 07-30-2006, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brushslingers

Uhhh... whats family/fun time?

It's the thing that in 10-20 years when you look back, you wish you had spent more of.

GoodPainter · 07-30-2006, 02:30 PM

Yeah
I have a family with kids and i know starting up this painting biz has put a damper on my fun family time and vacations..
But i keep reassuring my wife that as soon as i put all my time and energy into this biz, set it into action, very soon i can quit sh*tty job and put our life into perspective by setting some goals and vacations in the near future.

It just takes a matter of time of sacrificing the good stuff until you can ride high on the family/fun.

ROBERT

**ProWallGuy** · 07-30-2006, 02:40 PM

ALWAYS set aside time for the family, whether you are just starting up, or in full swing. Its real easy to get caught up in the stress and flow of a biz, and completely forget about just exactly WHY we are out here doing it.

BTW, after almost 20 yrs., I never ever seen an afterhours paint emergency.

GoodPainter · 07-30-2006, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProWallGuy

ALWAYS set aside time for the family, whether you are just starting up, or in full swing. Its real easy to get caught up in the stress and flow of a biz, and completely forget about just exactly WHY we are out here doing it.
BTW, after almost 20 yrs., I never ever seen an afterhours paint emergency.

Very nice to know all this
I do my painting in the morning like 8am-2pm with the contract i have now -- my landlords ext job-- works nice since im at home and my 2yr old daughter and wife can come outside & we can get a smoke break 2gether plus eat lunch.
But then, at 2pm Is when i go to my mach oper job 3-11pm,
ive had the job for over 4 yrs now but we know that i cant keep working this 2nd shift gig while my daughter starts school--otherwise wont ever see her
So ive come to go for my dreams start self employed then break for my Corporation in all aspects of const. and landscaping, including restaurant/bar pizza shop and cafe... not to mention real estate

...

am i dreaming to much or what...
...well i have to start somewhere..painting is in my heritage and i enjoy it , also have many friends into trimwork elect and remodling and many more

Brushslingers · 07-30-2006, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProWallGuy

BTW, after almost 20 yrs., I never ever seen an afterhours paint emergency.

You mean you've never EVER gotten a call at midnight with "OMG! My mother in law is coming in the morning and I NEED this dining room painted NOWWWW!!!!!"????

Terrence · 08-22-2006, 12:42 AM

*works nice since im at home and my 2yr old daughter and wife can come outside & we can get a smoke break 2gether plus eat lunch.*

Please don't tell me your 2 yr old daughter is smoking already...

Maybe it's time for that talk.

BMAN · 08-22-2006, 05:56 AM

His cars alone indicate that he is willing to pay more for quality. I am not saying you charge more because he can pay more but he will expect more so charge him more. Never paint a garage without a good stain blocker underneath as you will learn the hard way what is underneath even if you cant see it.