Peeling Latex on Orlando Deck - Proper Fix? - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

brainswell · 07-24-2006, 11:53 AM

Hey guys,
I've got a PT deck that has two coats of old latex on it. These were not applied at the same time. First coat may be a few years to 4 years old. Second coat was applied about 1+ years.

As you can imagine the paint is peeling badly in the horizontal and traffic areas. The wood seems wet all the time in many places, especially underneath where there is much mold and mildew.

Overall the structural integrity of the deck is in a good/sound condition. The worst areas are the 12 steps. They are all warped.

From a cost point, what is the best option for this homeowner?

Tear down and rebuild a new deck, or strip and stain the existing?

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

**Nathan** · 07-24-2006, 12:01 PM

Brian, I'm not the best to answer this but I'm sure you will get some good feedback within a few hours.

But I did wantot say hello and welcome to the site. How's Jeff doing and how is business in Clermont?

brainswell · 07-24-2006, 12:40 PM

We are doing well. I see your Forum is getting lots of traffic and some really good feedback. That is great.

Business is good, very competitive. Lot's of new paint company's, lot's of low-ball pricing, but we won't go there...

We have stayed busy through the first part of the summer so far.
God is good and we pray he'll keep the work coming.
Brian

**Nathan** · 07-24-2006, 12:44 PM

Amen Brian... glad to hear everything is going well for you. I know when I left the area there were a ton of new contractors showing up compared to just a year earlier.

I'm sure with the reputation you guys have you will have no problems.

Tell everyone I said high and thinks for joining the site Brian.

Guardi Pro · 07-24-2006, 04:27 PM

I would first use Floodpro stripper/cleaner good for both oil & latex, then pressure wash off using no more than 1200 psi. Then use a wood brightener, again PW off. Make sure wood has no more than 12% moisture. Prime & paint. Deck is in sound condition from what you said so would just replace steps... I'm sure AA Paint will be able to explain or advise more so than i, but that's the basic's.

Check the site there is alot of info on your question....

AAPaint · 07-24-2006, 05:16 PM

Wow....two coats of latex. That's gonna be a MAJOR pain to strip. I don't know how much area you're talking about rebuilding, but it might just end up more cost effective. Problem is, all of the latex isn't going to come up easily. It will probably take two shots with the stripper just to get it off. The verticals are gonna be even harder, and you'll still have paint left on there, guaranteed, which could mean a lot of sanding if they want something like a semi transparent.

Your best bet is to first test a small area of the wood with a good stripper, full strength. If you need help on products, lemme know. This will at least give you an idea of what you're up against. Once it's stripped, you'll need to nuetralize the stripper with an acid, which will also brighten the wood. Then you can stain, but you will most likely have to use a solid stain at best. Make sure it's a penetrating oil finish...

This is a job you won't be able to make any guarantees on unless you can ensure the latex will come up easy enough to make it cost effective. This is rarely the case. It may be more cost effective to re-deck and put new rails and steps on than to strip it down, but I'm not a carpenter, so I don't know how much that costs in comparison.

brainswell · 07-24-2006, 08:06 PM

Guardi Pro & AAPaint,
Thanks for the sound advice. This is the approach/thought process I have been using for the correct solution to this job, so your words really help bring focus.

You also confirmed my "concerns" about the labor involved to correctly restore this deck. Two coats of latex is NOT going to be easy to strip, and will not be 100% removed.

This will be labor intensive and I will charge adequately for each step/process. But, as you all know, after you do this a while you get to know your customers and whether they can "really" afford what it is they want. In other words, the difference between "preservation" and "restoration".

In this case, the right job or best looking job is restoration. The "look" is important here not only because the owner is an artist

, but also because this deck is the front entrance to the home. It's really one of the first things seen/noticed on the home. That peeling latex just looks like _____! It's bad curb appeal...

So I'll probably put together 3 different estimates/scenarios something like:

Complete Strip (2x); sand; acid/brighten; solid stain
Re-deck; new stairs; new rails
Demolish current deck; install new deck; stain

#2 is probably the best option for this owner. It's kind of restoration/preservation hybrid. I'm not a carpenter either so I'll have to ask some wood butchers for their input.

I'll take you up on the product advice. Don't do many "strip" jobs. What strippers, neutralizers and stains have you had success with?

Very grateful,
Brainswell

**slickshift** · 07-24-2006, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brainswell

#2 is probably the best option for this owner.

Probably
That latex is going to be a beeotch to remove
Unless that wood underneath is in really good shape otherwise, really good shape, it may not be worth the effort to strip it

brainswell · 07-25-2006, 10:34 PM

Re-deck or rebuild, that's the ticket....

Unless I pass it on to a knowledgeable WR!

Did you guys see the other thread between AA and Fife?

And did ProWallGuy really ask,
Question: With all due respect, are you really a painter?"
Answer:No, I'm the receptionist.

**Double-A** · 07-25-2006, 11:01 PM

Yes, he did. Sorta, in this one used the word "even" instead of "really".

http://www.contractortalk.com/showth...683#post111683

BDA4Life · 07-25-2006, 11:11 PM

I've stripped solids before they take right strength chems and dwell times but they can be done!

It's soo much cheaper to strip a deck that it is to re deck right?

How big does the deck have to be to re deck it for $500?

AAPaint · 07-25-2006, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDA4Life

I've stripped solids before they take right strength chems and dwell times but they can be done!

It's soo much cheaper to strip a deck that it is to re deck right?

How big does the deck have to be to re deck it for $500?

brainswell · 07-26-2006, 08:24 AM

BDA4Life,
Good stuff. I agree with AA -

Your work is worthy of applause.

What products do you use?

Decks are not are forte, and we have never stripped one with this much latex/solid stain. I know the current top coat is latex because I have seen the can. Not sure what the original underneath is.

I'll try to get a picture of the deck up so you have a better idea. Here are the basic dimensions.

deck area - 13' x 10' (2"x6")
railing - 23' with 2"x4"'s and 2"x6" cap
rail posts - 2"x2" @6"OC - about 56 of them, not including the stairs (don't remember exact count)
stairs - 68" wide, 12 steps with 10" tread (warped), 6" rise; 4 stringers

Thanks

BDA4Life · 07-26-2006, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brainswell

BDA4Life,
Good stuff. I agree with AA -

Your work is worthy of applause.

What products do you use?

Decks are not are forte, and we have never stripped one with this much latex/solid stain. I know the current top coat is latex because I have seen the can. Not sure what the original underneath is.

I'll try to get a picture of the deck up so you have a better idea. Here are the basic dimensions.

deck area - 13' x 10' (2"x6")
railing - 23' with 2"x4"'s and 2"x6" cap
rail posts - 2"x2" @6"OC - about 56 of them, not including the stairs (don't remember exact count)
stairs - 68" wide, 12 steps with 10" tread (warped), 6" rise; 4 stringers

Thanks

Thanks Brian

I mix all my S/Hydroxide/strippers, brightners etc. but most all products that are S/H base strippers might work they just might have to mixed at a strong strentgh with long dewll times.Doing a test spot will give you an idea of what you are up against.

The only stain our company has used for the last 16 yrs is Baker's Gray Away.

Jon F · 07-26-2006, 12:47 PM

Brainwell,

...Do you think it is Paint or Solid color stain, and how old?? If less than, say, four years old, be leary. Naoh strippers [usually] won't touch an acrylic. If it is paint, it might strip, but be prepared (and bid) for it to strip once coat at a time. I give this one a shot if I were you, it's quite small. Just put in a clause "if unsuccessful, be paid to re-paint blah blah". And don't forget--it's not the floor that you need to do a test on, it is that little underside area below the handrail that still looks like new. That's what will fight you; not the floor.

**Double-A** · 07-26-2006, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDA4Life

Thanks Brian

I mix all my S/Hydroxide/strippers, brightners etc. but most all products that are S/H base strippers might work they just might have to mixed at a strong strentgh with long dewll times.Doing a test spot will give you an idea of what you are up against.

The only stain our company has used for the last 16 yrs is Baker's Gray Away.

I've never heard of it. Is it a regional product? Who carries it. A Google search for Bakers Gray Away got me only some forum mentions.

BDA4Life · 07-26-2006, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double-A

I've never heard of it. Is it a regional product? Who carries it. A Google search for Bakers Gray Away got me only some forum mentions.

Baker's Gray Away is made by Texas Wood Products in Plano Tx. they are not a real big comapny but will ship to most states except Cali.

We have been a distributor for them for 16 yrs and all of my customers love the ease of application.I'm a applicator and distributor so it works out great for my applicating company price wise.

brainswell · 07-27-2006, 11:33 AM

Jon,
Good advice. I would not have thought to test the under side of the rail but as soon as I read it, BAM!, I knew that was the ticket.

It will be sometime next week or the following but I'll let you know the results of the test. And, of course the bid/contract will be clear and concise regarding test results, etc.

Thanks,
Brian

BTW - I'm pretty sure the current top coat is latex, but I'll double check the label as the owner still has a can. Actually, I think it is the house paint...

**Nathan** · 07-27-2006, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brainswell

BTW - I'm pretty sure the current top coat is latex, but I'll double check the label as the owner still has a can. Actually, I think it is the house paint...

Did the homeowner paint it himself last time?

If it was a professional painter more than likely he just had the stain tinted to match what was on the house but the only touch up he left was the house paint.

That's my thought anyways.

Brushslingers · 07-27-2006, 09:53 PM

I agree with all the information here however... you mentioned bubbling. Orlando. Sounds to me like the first "coat" is oil based with a clear finish, going over that with a latex in the humid/salty climes of south Florida would cause the bubble and peel within one year as you stated. Most likely a soild color stain on the first go around. Here's an easy way for you to "test" without cost or time.

Kerosene.

Rub a little on a corner of the wood, the latex will disolve, the oil based stains will not. In the old days of white wash, 150 years ago... that was how they treated wood for prep. Same would apply to restoration projects on old homes, if they used Kerosene to prep the wood.. awful headache to get rid of. Hope that helps you, i've tried to avoid working hard for years.