Painting sub - what standards - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

danielolson5 · 04-02-2009, 07:58 AM

Hired a painting sub to paint a gut remodel. Never worked with this guy before. Some of the finished rooms are not up to my personal standards, but may be acceptable for non-nitpickers. Wanted to put this out there and see what others say.. Some of what I'm seeing is -
Roller fuzz in the finish
Patches with trowel marks
Patches that don't match the texture on the walls
Drips in inconspicuous area
Junk in the paint in general, like dirt, little pebbles
The cut in lines aren't PERFECT

Some other things that I'm convinced aren't entirely his fault.. like nail holes showing in the white painted trim..

What do you all think???

Should he fix all/some/most/none of the above? What standard do you hold painters to?

Thanks in advance

Mr. Mike · 04-02-2009, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Patches with trowel marks
Patches that don't match the texture on the walls

Who did these patches? Did you tell him the walls were ready? The lint is not O'k.

danielolson5 · 04-02-2009, 08:27 AM

Some of the patches were done by a drywall sub, ie split inside corner tape and redo some outside corners, but the issues I'm having is in the field area of the drywall - which I would "assume" the contractor would inspect and repair or raise a red flag before painting - isn't that common practice?

Steve Richards · 04-02-2009, 08:41 AM

Did you get other bids on this job?

Was this guy's the cheapest?

You didn't hire one of those "any room for $89" guys...did you?

SLSTech · 04-02-2009, 09:03 AM

Did you hire him just to paint or did you hire a painter?

What's the difference you ask? It appears you hired someone just to apply paint, while a Painter will only spend approx 20% of the time they are there applying paint - the rest of the time is prep & cleanup.

world llc · 04-02-2009, 09:04 AM

you get what you pay for... wether it's myself or my a-list subs... you will get a perfect job, but it's going to hurt... just a little bit

waynec · 04-02-2009, 09:40 AM

If you hired my company, we would address all those issues along the way. However, I would have given you a price that would have included a complete paint job. Everyone out here can't determine if a Pro was hired for a legitimate price or a hack at a low ball price. Hence, you could get what you paid for.

danielolson5 · 04-02-2009, 10:03 AM

I defininitely didn't hire the cheapest, but this contractor was the one of the lower bidders, I assumed because he wasn't a full blown contracting outfit - ie website, tons of advertising..etc. $6,500 to paint a 2600 sq ft house (interior), incl trim and windows (no crazy crown, builtins). No floor coverings or furniture to deal with. I figured it was a fair price. Had quotes at 4,000 5,400 6,400 10,000 15,000 and 30,000.. The 30,000 was a union outfit at the top of their game. I chose this contractor primarily because he had GREAT refrences. Basically, are the defects I'm talking about acceptable for the price paid? Does it sound like I'm getting what I paid for?

Dave Mac · 04-02-2009, 10:18 AM

pdca has a standard to inspect painted areas , and it is a certain distance you stand away from the surface to see if their is any issues, I forget the distance but a couple feet should be in the ballpark. Have you tried to address the issues at hand with this guy, this is all about building relationships, sounds like you may have a sheen on them walls and their going to bring out imperfections more then a flat, sounds like your request are reasonable and I would for sure in a nice way try to adress them with this guy. Good luck and let us know how it turns out

410tip · 04-02-2009, 11:36 AM

Roller fuzz in the finish
Patches with trowel marks
Patches that don't match the texture on the walls
Drips in inconspicuous area
Junk in the paint in general, like dirt, little pebbles
The cut in lines aren't PERFECT
Some other things that I'm convinced aren't entirely his fault.. like nail holes showing in the white painted trim..
What do you all think???
Should he fix all/some/most/none of the above? What standard do you hold painters to
Not the painters fault:
1.Patches and texture issues. The drywallers are responsible for any texture related problems.
2. Roller fuzz: Probably smooth walls. All rollers will shed to some degree. If it is mild, not the painting contractors fault. If its extreme, he used bottom of the line rollers and it should be addressed.
3. Dirt in paint, might be problems with the drywall. Address this issue, more often than not, it's the texture guys that mess this up. If its dirty paint, the painter screwed up.

Painters Responsibility:
1. Cut Lines: not all cut lines are perfect. If they are wiggily, then not acceptable. If they are 90% straight, he did his job.
2. Drips in hard to see areas: leave this alone. Address it mildly, but don't dwell on it. Who is ever going to inspect your coat closet,
3.nail holes in millwork. Should have been punched and filled. if they can be seen from more than 18 inches, they should be fixed.

Dave Mac, was right on w/his analysis. hope this helps.

WisePainter · 04-02-2009, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielolson5

Hired a painting sub to paint a gut remodel. Never worked with this guy before. Some of the finished rooms are not up to my personal standards, but may be acceptable for non-nitpickers. Wanted to put this out there and see what others say.. Some of what I'm seeing is -
Roller fuzz in the finish
Patches with trowel marks
Patches that don't match the texture on the walls
Drips in inconspicuous area
Junk in the paint in general, like dirt, little pebbles
The cut in lines aren't PERFECT

Some other things that I'm convinced aren't entirely his fault.. like nail holes showing in the white painted trim..

I would never allow such blasphemous hackery to prevail on my contracts.
Flawless is what my clients pay for and flawless is what they receive.

At least that's what my clients tell me, and 10 of their friends.

Sounds like you need a third party to go over the details of the contract and then take a look see at the job.
It is hard to give advice when there are obviously so many unanswered questions from all of us here already.

Good luck.

Steve Richards · 04-02-2009, 02:22 PM

Sometimes my lines aren't perfect.

And the older I get, the crookeder they get.

Yes...I guess I'm a hack.

But I'm an old hack..and old hacks can get away with it.

WisePainter · 04-02-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Richards

But I'm an old hack..and old hacks can get away with it.

After all, who wants to pick on an old guy?

Steve Richards · 04-02-2009, 02:44 PM

heh...I think you might, Wise.

might try to, anyhow.

GD whippersnapper

WisePainter · 04-02-2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Richards

heh...I think you might, Wise.

might try to, anyhow.

GD whippersnapper

But I like you.

I hate to admit it, but I was really tough on the old burned out painters that were working alongside me.
I mean seriously, how bad did they mess up in life to be working with me, making the same amount of money?!?

I am done at 45, which is ten more years of sucking fumes.
I want to open a greasy spoon restaurant and grow old feeding people.

NAV · 04-02-2009, 03:22 PM

Industry standard - look at the wall straight on from 5 feet away under normal lighting conditions. That holds up in court in Ohio for commercial work. residential work is a bit different. I would make him fix everything before paying him. If he refuses send him a letter stating you will hire someone else to fix it and take it out of his money, give him 2 days. you better double check whit a lawyer

Maybe next time you will ask to see some of the sub-contractors work before you hire them.

sparehair · 04-03-2009, 12:14 AM

Communication is key. If he is a subcontractor you as the general are his supervisor. You need to communicate the level you are looking for. That being said, I would say you should ask him to fix ALL of the blemishes (paint anywhere it is not supposed to be is not acceptable). It shouldn't take more than a day at most with the understanding that he will continue to work with you in the future. Or not if he fails to do so.

WisePainter · 04-03-2009, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparehair

Communication is key. If he is a subcontractor you as the general are his supervisor. You need to communicate the level you are looking for. That being said, I would say you should ask him to fix ALL of the blemishes (paint anywhere it is not supposed to be is not acceptable). It shouldn't take more than a day at most with the understanding that he will continue to work with you in the future. Or not if he fails to do so.

Other than being a bad painter, why would he not have sanded down the edges on the patches?
Dunno, sounds like a cluster to me.

painterdude · 04-03-2009, 03:23 PM

simple answer is....why didn't you go over the job with the guy and get his estimate in writing. What's he gonna do and for what. Even old painter like me who only does houses anymore put in writing that I'm going to fill holes, caulk and patch cracks and with what. If repairs are to be done it better go in the quote..covers both the worker and the payer. Accept stuff that's not done right??? Too late now. I really don't have much experience working as a sub as I did some 20 -30 years ago and learned my lessons quickly. People in your way, trades ahead never getting things done on time etc. etc. I've found it much better to depend on yourself and your employees. You trained them and others migh not have. just my 2 cents. pd

WisePainter · 04-03-2009, 04:04 PM

HERE