painting by square ft.? - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

izote61 · 04-25-2006, 03:44 PM

my question is if the rate per sq ft still 5 dollars sqft jus the labor or any change in recent years. thnak you

**slickshift** · 04-25-2006, 05:06 PM

The rate can vary greatly
....that sounds high though-is that Canadian or something?

Whatcha paintin'?

Woz the Painter · 04-25-2006, 05:07 PM

Did you say 5 bucks a sq foot for painting? Give me your address, I'll be there tomorrow.

**slickshift** · 04-25-2006, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woz the Painter

Did you say 5 bucks a sq foot for painting? Give me your address, I'll be there tomorrow.

Good point

Paying or charging?
Paying, I'll get there before Woz

AAPaint · 04-25-2006, 06:05 PM

Woohoo!! $5 sq. ft.?? That sounds high even for measuring by floorspace if you ask me. I do all mine by sq. ft. of surface area. Sometimes it will be as low as .30 sq. ft. depending on the product and substrate. Arriving at the sq. ft. number is done by figuring your hourly rate, production rate, and coverage/cost of paint. My software does it all for me when it comes to that part.

izote61 · 04-25-2006, 10:44 PM

this is a estimate from home tech cost estimator.

**slickshift** · 04-26-2006, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by izote61

this is a estimate from home tech cost estimator.

Might want to estimate that one right into the trash there...
Lol
Are you sure you're reading/figuring that right?

**slickshift** · 04-26-2006, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AAPaint

... Arriving at the sq. ft. number is done by figuring your hourly rate, production rate, and coverage/cost of paint. My software does it all for me when it comes to that part.

That's the way to do it izote61

...but not too much
What software does that for you AA?
It coverts it to sq. ft.? You punch in HR/PR/CC?

dayspring · 04-26-2006, 05:24 AM

Many painters in our area estimate by the sf of floor space. I never understood that concept. What if they have 14 doors, 30 windows with panes, stained base and other brush-work, furniture to move, etc. They either put it to the client or themselves. In all fairness an itemized estimate of wallspace, # of doors, windows, trim etc works best. In painting a one size fits all price has never worked for me.

simmons · 04-26-2006, 11:50 AM

unfortuneately price per sq. ft. wasn,t invented by painters, but by pencil pushers trying to squeeze their budgets. but having had to deal with it for some time it can have its advantages. Most new construction painters can make quick work of bidding in a given market by a few observations-
-ceiling height/vaulted ceilings
-trim door style/moulding style
-cabinets pre-finished or not?
-color scheme
although its not scientific the reality is every other trade bids work based on per sq. ft. and architects and builders look over bids with cost per sq. ft. i'm one of the highest paid painters in our area. i learned a long time ago that my competitors want to play the cost per sq. game,so i let them! SELL YOUR SKILLS , SELL YOUR QUALITY , SELL YOUR DEPENDABILITY !!! i have no problem charging more per sq. ft. vs.my compeitors because my clients are getting the best job for THEIR $$$

izote61 · 04-26-2006, 11:45 PM

mister simmons tell me how you estimate? are you using any program or you have formula i will like to learn. thank you.

simmons · 04-27-2006, 10:54 AM

If I understand your question you want a program that will get you the work at a high profit, and figure variables so you can estimate these jobs easier? Sorry I dont have one. If you want to learn per.sq./ft.
here's what I would do-
-meet the bulders in your area ,find out what painters are competing for
-talk to your paint rep. They want to sell paint,and will usually be willing to help you get into the market with their product.
-realize that per.sq/ft is flexible you dont try the same rate with every similiar situation. adjust to variables, be flexible but the number one thing is sell your abilties even if you know your being underbid. tell your potential client why your paint is the best. you'd be surprised how far that this can take you.

AAPaint · 04-27-2006, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slickshift

That's the way to do it izote61

...but not too much
What software does that for you AA?
It coverts it to sq. ft.? You punch in HR/PR/CC?

Yup...I'm currently using a beta version of Devwave's Paint Estimator Pro. I had the Estimate Works, and I used it to format my proposals. I couldn't figure for the life of me how to make it do my numbers. Then I got the pro version, but it had some quirks. I emailed them about said quirks, and got a response with a link to the beta of the new pro version. This thing is actually pretty dang awesome. It does take a lot of tailoring putting in your own rates and types of coatings, etc. I am still adding stuff every time I do an estimate. Anyway, I put in: coating type (or door/window/trim type), cost per gallon, coverage per gallon, our production rate spreading said product, and our company hourly rate...what it gives me is a number per sq. ft. for that particular item. I don't know when the new version will be released...but I'll tell you when it is so you can check it out. Just like anything, it's not perfect, but it works for the most part.

lornmastro · 05-03-2006, 09:18 PM

i also checked out home tech cost estimator ( www.costestimator.com )...but i didn't see it showing $5 /sqft....was wondering if anyone out there has checked out there program and whether they think there rates are accurate.

lxdollarsxl · 05-03-2006, 09:51 PM

"i also checked out home tech cost estimator ...but i didn't see it showing $5 /sqft....was wondering if anyone out there has checked out there program and whether they think there rates are accurate."

I just checked a job i had already quoted with that estimator you gave and it came out with $60 higher than my quote, so for my area it came pretty close.

lornmastro · 05-06-2006, 08:30 PM

just bringing this to the top...anyone else checked out this home tech cost estimator??

**slickshift** · 05-07-2006, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AAPaint

Yup...I'm currently using a beta version of Devwave's Paint Estimator Pro. I had the Estimate Works, and I used it to format my proposals. I couldn't figure for the life of me how to make it do my numbers. Then I got the pro version, but it had some quirks. I emailed them about said quirks, and got a response with a link to the beta of the new pro version. This thing is actually pretty dang awesome. It does take a lot of tailoring putting in your own rates and types of coatings, etc. I am still adding stuff every time I do an estimate. Anyway, I put in: coating type (or door/window/trim type), cost per gallon, coverage per gallon, our production rate spreading said product, and our company hourly rate...what it gives me is a number per sq. ft. for that particular item. I don't know when the new version will be released...but I'll tell you when it is so you can check it out. Just like anything, it's not perfect, but it works for the most part.

I don't think I'm hijacking if I ask a follow-up, the thread is about this sort of thing....If I am, sorry 'bout that

AA, it sounds like the program is much less generic than the usual ones (estimating book/software) which most of us have found to not really work for us anyways
It sounds like it uses "your" numbers (which is usually the advice given here for est. Qs)

My Q:
With all that punching in data, is it really saving you time/money?
That's a lot of data

And I know what my production rate is, would I have to punch in my helper's too?

I usually charge by an average production rate
I'm pretty quick, and I "hose" myself if I use actual production rates for myself

Do you actually punch in production rates for SWP primer vs. BM and Pitts?

The cost per gallon can actually vary, shops are limited and distances can be far out here
And prices can vary greatly (picture Island prices...you pay greatly for not having to go to the mainland for it), if I pu the paint at the shop down the road from the job, it could easily save me an hour + travel time, but I'll pay an extra $5-$15 bucks a gallon
Is there a mechanism for that sort of thing?

What about Fudge Factors and PITA charges?

.....maybe this should be a new thread...lol....

colin · 05-07-2006, 03:05 PM

Hmmm, I've been using a UK estimating software called "Fast Estimate" for a few years, but that Estimate Works Paint Pro looks like it ups the ante a bit.

I think on balance that punching in dimensions and getting a pre-formatted bid proposal out the other end is faster than doing it on paper, but you have to get your rates into the thing first, which does take time. And I don't fancy doing it all over again!

Basically its just a database (of rates, times, costs etc.) from which you pick out the ones you need for the particular situation. And if, say the cost of paint varies for this particular job, then you can edit the numbers for that particular job only.

My one gripe with the one I use is that the items are shown on the estimate as money, and not as time, and so if I want to schedule the job by task, I have to manually convert the labour cost from money to time - which is a pain.

Also, sharing customer details between accounting software and estimating one would be ideal

Feel free to move this to another thread

AAPaint · 05-07-2006, 07:47 PM

Actually, it is saving time. Aside from having to enter the products, production rates, etc...having it formatted quickly is a big time saver. When I estimate something that's allready in there it goes real quickly. I simply put in the sq. ft., area name, etc and it spits right out. When this beta is complete it has the option to print an estimate, print contracts, print reports, etc. The reports tell you exactly how many gallons of paint and how many man hours, room by room. You can have it print detailed reports or work orders as well. It will do the contract or estimate with totals only, or with prices for each area....It keeps a database of your customers and their estimates (once saved).

For your production rates, I would just insert an avg you expect to be able to put out with the helper included. The rate adjustment screen has these areas you can adjust: Paint Covering, Door Styles, Window Styles, Deck or Floor styles, fascia styles, soffit styles, area extras, area description, site description, warranty comments, include comments, estimate text.

The amount of areas is unlimited. You can have 100 if you want. You can add unlimited extra fees, or one time fees.

For fudge or PITA, usually I just go in and adjust the production rate or adjust the hourly rate to compensate. The program has a feature to increase or decrease the total by a percentage...you just click up or down.

Everything is editable...so you can account for just about anything. It takes some time getting all the different coatings put in...but it's worth it. I do have separate numbers for each and every type of coating from any manufacturer. Under "paint covering" section or "door styles" section, I have an item for each type of paint, even doors, I make a separate item depending on the coating or level of prep, and different ones if it's 6 panel or those old 3 panel, flat door, whatever.

It's a ton of data, but as you do estimates it gets put in, and each successive one becomes easier. You can make that part as simple or as complex as you like..I prefer having the separate rates for absolutely everything. Another good reason for that is, it inputs the title of whatever I coating I choose, etc. Here is a sample of one contract:

Quote:

AA Quality Painting & Pressure Washing LLC
5291 Collins Rd. #337
Jacksonville, FL US 32244
Phone: (904)622-8466
Web Site: www.aaqualitypainting.com
Email: info@aaqualitypainting.com

Contract #230
April 20, 2006
Mr. Customer
123 Your Street
Jacksonville, FL 32216

Dear Mr. Customer,

In regards to the 4 Bedroom House, located at 123 Your Street., Jacksonville FL, the undersigned proposes to complete all work described below:

This contract includes the following materials and/or labor.

• Surface preparation.
• Door frames painted.
• Window frames painted.
• Trim painted.
• Baseboards painted.
• All necessary materials including but not limited to primers, paints, sanding materials, putties, caulks, tape, plastic, drywall compound, rags, roller "naps", etc.
• All necessary labor as required to complete the scope of work outlined in this contract.
• Tarps, poly and coverings.
• Includes painting ceilings, and staining rear deck.

Detailed Project Specifications:

Included Warranty Period: 2 Year Guarantee against defects in the quality of our workmanship.

Kitchen/Dining area Approx. Area: (752 sq.ft.)
Includes the following:
2 coat(s) of Super Spec Latex Flat.

Doors Only Approx. Area: (0 sq.ft.)
Includes the following:
20 ea. 6 panel door - 2 coat(s).
Comment: This area description is a separate listing for doors only.

Den Approx. Area: (624 sq.ft.)
Includes the following:
5 ea. Window sills and returns - 2 coat(s).
2 coat(s) of Super Spec Latex Flat.
Comment: All paneling will be primed with Zinsser's BIN shellac primer to prevent wood tannins from showing through in the future.

Master Bedroom Approx. Area: (560 sq.ft.)
Includes the following:
2 ea. Window sills and returns - 2 coat(s).
2 coat(s) of Super Spec Latex Flat.

Master Bathroom Approx. Area: (304 sq.ft.)
Includes the following:
2 coat(s) of Super Spec Latex Flat.
Comment: Includes priming all raw drywall.

Bathroom 2 Approx. Area: (208 sq.ft.)
Includes the following:
2 coat(s) of Super Spec Latex Flat.
Comment: Includes priming all raw drywall.

Bathroom 3 Approx. Area: (208 sq.ft.)
Includes the following:
2 coat(s) of Super Spec Latex Flat.

Bedroom Approx. Area: (352 sq.ft.)
Includes the following:
2 coat(s) of Super Spec Latex Flat.
Comment: Mold will be bleached and scrubbed. Any leftover stains will be primed with a stain blocking primer.

Bedroom Approx. Area: (336 sq.ft.)
Includes the following:
2 coat(s) of Super Spec Latex Flat.
Comment: Mold will be bleached and scrubbed. Any leftover stains will be primed with a stain blocking primer.

Bedroom Approx. Area: (400 sq.ft.)
Includes the following:
2 coat(s) of Super Spec Latex Flat.
Comment: Mold will be bleached and scrubbed. Any leftover stains will be primed with a stain blocking primer.

Hall Approx. Area: (176 sq.ft.)
Includes the following:
2 coat(s) of Super Spec Latex Flat.

Hall Approx. Area: (320 sq.ft.)
Includes the following:
2 coat(s) of Super Spec Latex Flat.

All of the above work to be completed in a professional manner that shall meet or exceed accepted industry standards for the sum of:

SUB TOTAL: $X,XXX.XX
TOTAL: $X,XXX.XX

You are hereby authorized to furnish all materials and labor to complete the work mentioned in the above proposal, for which the undersigned agrees to pay the amount mentioned in said proposal, and according to the terms thereof:

Payments are to be made as follows:

First draw: $X,XXX.XX Due: This payment is required as a deposit to be put on our schedule. Deposits must be received at least 2 business days prior to the scheduled commencement of work on your project.

Second draw: $X,XXX.XX Due: This payment is due after completion of all prep work as outlined in this proposal, or at a halfway point to be determined by the job supervisor from our company. For large projects, second payment will be due no later than 7 calendar days after the commencement of work.

Final draw: $X,XXX.XX Due: This payment is due immediately upon substantial completion of the scope of work as outlined in this proposal. At time of completion a walk-through will be performed with the customer. Any defects or touch ups will be addressed at this time, but shall not delay this final payment.

It has my logo at the top (program puts it in) and at the bottom of all this I add my contract terms. At this point, I'm not sure if they fixed the fields for payment terms because my text for each draw caused an error because it's so lengthy...instead of just "50% due on signing". It should allow for any text in those fields in the final release from what I know.

Hope that helps some.

**slickshift** · 05-07-2006, 08:42 PM

AA
ooooooooooo...pretty...
Me=Likes
I'll have to check that out more closely later
THX!