Painting Rant

ron schenker

I've done alot of paint jobs that were previously done by hacks. I point flaws out to the customer and tell them that I can fix up some of them but not 100% These are customers that want a nice job, not a "high priced superb job". I'm talking flaws like:
1- bad drywall repairs
2- terrible cut ins
3- sandpaperlike old paint
4- gaps around receptacles and light switches
5- large scratches in stucco ceilings
etc. etc.
I'd like to do a top notch paint job, but most of my customers are...shall I say...frugal. Prep work is 89% of a good job, but how much time and effort can I spend? The finished job looks very nice and most people can't see any flaws, but I can.
What do you guys do when confronted with this scenario?
BTW.. I walk away with about $40/hr after all materials and expenses are paid, which is what I need to live and prosper

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Shoalsfugro

Unless you have unlimited budget and time or your the first one through you can only do your best with what you have and make a living.

phinsher

Ron, We usually ask the customer what they'd like to see repaired. If they say nothing then I'll point to the worst area just to check. If the customer does point out things they'd like to see repaired, then I usually repair anything i see that could be considered comparable to what they picked out.

Fact is we usually judge our work more harshly then any customer. Just let them know you want them to be happy with the quality of the work, but you don't want them to spend more money if they'll never know what you fixed.

Its tough as a painter not to fix everything because we want it to be "perfect" even though we know we'll never get there. It was a tough lesson to learn for me. I had to seperate quality into two catagories. 1. Things are done correctly - this is where the minimum necessary prep is done 2. The extra cosmetic "stuff" we do to make it look even better. Each customer has a different desired result.

painterman

Ron,

Several months a go there were some very good threads on "Branding" yourself or your business. If you Brand your business as a high end company that goes the extra mile for your customer,you will get the type of customers that you are looking for....the ones that will pay more to have that job done correctly, that the HO will be proud of.

PlainPainter

My attitude - is that if they are a serious homeowner, they will hire me 5-6 years down the line for a repaint. So I have always thought that I should fix a certain percentage of what I see - then fix another bunch on the next repaint. Even if the homeowner moves or you have new customers - if all of us painters did a little, eventually these rooms would be perfect. That's how my mentor was like especially on exteriors. The only problem is most painters are hacks and do the absolute minimum possible - so my mentor more often than not get confronted with a ton of stuff that needs fixing and is at a loss at what to do. Because there was a time when most painters fixed stuff - we sort of use to be a brotherhood in that regards - now you can come to a house and face tons of stuff that could use tweaking, but you would lose your shirt if you attacked them.

BMAN

Its tough trying to do it right and still working within a customers budget. The line is there someplace for us to find.

PlainPainter

I agree the line is there. We have to scope out the work, and unbeknownst to our potential customer, put in a certain amount of time and materials into our estimate to fix a bunch of repairs - even if the customer doesnt want anything fixed. I usually hate this type of customer, because invariably they always come back disappointed and point out all these defects after the fact. If they do want stuff fixed, then it's gravy - you can jack the estimate even higher - because that is what they will expect.

-plainpainter

Joewho

Problem is that another painter or friend of the HO comes in and see's that there are still some areas that need repair. 10 to 1 the HO will not say they didn't want it repaired, so who gets the blame? You.

This is a great opportunity for another painter to tear you apart and possibly take business you would have had. It's a tough call to make.

I'm really paranoid about this and usually do the repairs anyway. It doesn't usually take that much longer and I'm willing to eat a little bit in order to protect my name.

painterman

Exactly right

Danahy

me to customer.

me "show me some things that need to get fixed".
they might point out 5 or so...
me "Ok, in here I'll probably be fixing 30 or more things that I can find"
(I'll fill a bunch, plus a ton get sorted out during the sanding phaze).
me "I'll also be sanding between coats, and having another look for other things" "If you notice something later on at night, that I can't see during the day light, let me know I'll fix it too"

Once the finish coat is up, it's a done deal...

99% of the time, it's left to my discretion, and no one looks. Sometimes I will do a room, show them, once they see the work I do, they are gone til the jobs done.

Also remember, if you've done one coat, ask them to take alook for things they see and mark it with tape... It's hularious sometimes, they point out 3 things, but miss the obvious 15 you thought needed attention....

HO's just want to be sure that the guy doing the job is doing it right, sometimes there's this little pissin' match about things, but to me this is a test of who's better, the HO, or me?... I always win, if I didn't, I'd be worried that I was in the wrong profession....

George Z

Ron,
It comes down to communication.
Both parties agree to the scope of work (contract)
You only fix what the customer hires you,wants and pays you to fix.
If something is not contracted to be done, you use your change orders.
If something is missed, it gets fixed sometime before customer signs off.

Unless you follow the above tried and proven procedures,
you are someone's personal service provider, not a business.

You know all this, but you feel bad the customer doesn't know what looks good.

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PlainPainter

I agree with George - but you have to get real professional with the change orders. Lots of customers want to treat us like a personal service provide - that behaviour is rampant among homeowners - and I don't up with it anymore - unless the contract is strictly and time and materials contract, and then I bill them for every second I spend doing something. But yeah you have to get use to confronting homeowners with change orders, disclaimers, etc. And it's tough because homeowners by nature are so unprofessional - I even had this one asian lady get mad at me, telling me this was her first time getting work done and didn't understand - of course she speaks like 5 different languages, and couldn't read the simple english in my contract.

-plainpainter

thom

I'm gonna agree with George and PlainPainter. If they buy a Yugo, give them one. If they want a Cadillac then they pay Cadillac prices.

If you work cheap, every referral is a cheap referral. You won't sell that referral job unless you are the cheapest.

No problem with being cheap. You can still make a fair buck. Just give them the Yugo when that's what they're willing to pay for.