Painting Here In The UK

PowerPaintingUK

Hi guys
Airless in the UK
Over here in the uk almost all houses are brick built or block and render. I've only ever seen one or two houses with siding here in my life time. We don’t paint the brick usually and the render is usually dealt with by a little scraping and filling. On new builds render is now gradually being replace by a product called "K-Rend" which is basically coloured render that doesn't ever need painting. Before I talk about products or methods though I must tell you the biggest problem we have over here. Prices for good products are absolutely ridiculous here. For example, I use airless and that in itself is very rare here in the UK. My Graco 495 ST MaxII cost me £2115, that's $4,287.78 USD!! Today I bought some acrylic eggshell (waterbourne satin/eggshell kind of finish) to paint a very large staircase in a 3 story house. I have painted the trim in this house with oil based eggshell of the same colour but because this is such a large staircase I thought I would use the airless and i only like to put water based product through it because of the clean-up & changing to water-oil and oil-water etc. If I painted the staircase by hand with the oil base that the customer has already bought it would take me about 10 days to paint & so to save myself time (by using the airless) I have been and bought the waterbase eggshell at my own expence. Here's where the problem is, I bought 10L (2.64 USgallons) and it cost me £78 that's $158 US dollars!! FOR 2.64 GALLONS!! This is from one of the cheaper suppliers here in the UK. If I wanted to buy the same amount in oil base it would be approx' £50 or $101.00USD. Both prices are very expensive but just look at the water base price..it's beyond belief! If I want BIN, a product that I'm sure you are familiar with, it will cost me £52 for 3.75L, or 1 U.S. gallon..thats $105 USD. Over here it is known as a problem sorting paint for covering stains and priming hard to paint areas. Ordinary wall emulsion (latex wall paint)from the cheap suppliers will cost me £12.32 ($25USD)for white only.. for only 5L (1.3us gallons) and £15.77 ($32 USD) for the same amount in a mixed colour. 72 ich 3M pre folded film, which is something I use alot of, costs me £8.50($17).
For all of these reasons, painting in the uk is stuck in the dark ages. As soon as something good comes along we get screwed so hard on the price that nobody buys or uses it and it then gets forgotten about. It's the same with airless painting, I paids $4287 USD for my 495 and so I'm one of the very few and all other decorators here think spray painting is a non starter. One guy the other day told my friend that I didn't know what I was doing because airless pumps are "obviously only for painting factories and industrial units" and this is a guy who runs a team of painters! I can assure you that here in the UK almost nobody knows what Latex extender is or what it does and even if they did, it would be out of their acceptable price range and so they would say "it's rubbish". I hate that fact but thats the way it is. I would dearly love to be able to use a latex extender to help with waterbourne products but it's not available over the counter. All I can get is floetrol online for £11.30($23USD) plus £11.75($23.80) shipping so thats $46.80 for only 1Litre(just over a quart).
So if you want to make money here in the uk just come over and open some outlets with the same prices you have in the states, you'll 'clean up'. Everybody will want to buy your products across a complete range from painters tape to BIN.
There aren't really any typical spray jobs here in the UK apart from maybe commercial buildings like factories. I use mine as much as I can but even painting companies with an airless sprayer will only use them on rare occasions. I think one of the reasons for this is that here painting is in the dark ages and painters just don’t mask any thing unless they really have to. Masking tape here is rubbish cheap stuff that sticks hard and then wont come off easily. Painters pride themselves in being able to "paint in a straight line" and if you mask then you are "not skilled enough". Masking is not really in the mind of the British painter because there isn't a lot of people doing it and that’s because as soon as a decent product comes on the market that's better than the rest, someone decides to screw everyone on price and it gets forgotten about. Sad but true. I have used masking for a long time now because I can see the benefits of using it and I like new labour saving products. I however have to search the internet for my masking products and have even resorted to importing small amounts from the US because it's cheaper, even with import tax applied. I buy my airless tips online from the US and e-bay because here they cost £45($90) each. So, like I already said, if you want to make alot of money just open some outlets here and give us US prices.. you'll be the number 1 supplier in about 3 weeks!

I'll be picking your brains here on the forum so i can play 'catchup' and learn as much as possible about airless and your various methods and ways of doing things and sorting painting problems. Forgive me if I ask something that seems obvious to you as here we have different names for the same products & there are lots of products you guys have that we just don't.

Thanks guys,
best regards, Phil

Workaholic

Phil,
Thank you for sharing, i am always fascinated by other countrys ways. Price is outrageous in the UK, I had always heard that airless were not very common there. It is a shame because here in the states we save a lot of time with an airless, and of course they make us a lot of money too.
What about brushes? what are the leading tools in the trade?
Oil will eventualy be phased out here as well, waterbourne is the easier way to go.
Is the painting market flooded there as well. Are there unions or anything like that?

Those max2 495's are solid rigs, real work horses. My newest 695 is a max2, quite a bit more powerful than the ultra max is. Shoot having 2 rigs in the UK is pretty uncommon. i read in the other thread 90 bucks a tip, ouch
I bought on ebay the other day 3, new titan 517 tips, a penny a piece and 2. bucks to ship. so 3 tips for 6.03
What does the average painter work out of, truck, van, box truck, ect.

Alot of the guys hang out here as well, http://www.painttalk.com/index.php

__________________
Sean

RILEY PAINTING

Hi Phil,im From Belfast But I'm Now Living In Detroit Michigan For The Past Thirteen Years And I Know What Your Talking About.the Thing Is Painters Back Home Think They Know Everything And They Are The Best.i Was Of The Same Mindset Untill I Came Here.now I Look For Any New Stuff That Comes On The Market And Try It Out As People Here Are Always Pushing For A Faster And Better Way To Do Things.one Thing You Might Want To Checkout Is Liquid Masking.on New Windows You Spray It On The Glass And Wood Then Spray Your Finish Coat Then You Run A Razor Blade Round The Glass And The Masking Peels Of The Glass Leaving A Perfect Paint Job.
Good Luck With Your Work Conor.

PowerPaintingUK

Thanks mate It's right what you say about painters here. They actually stand there shaking their heads at all the different coloured tapes I use (blue painters tape, purple low tack, green hard to stick), then they say "you're crazy!" when I tell them the prices of it, then they STFU when I finish a 4 week job after 1 week. I have seen the liquid masking on a few websites. Do you recommend a certain brand to try?

DeanV

The only pricing I saw on your list that is the same is the 3M masking film, that is in the same price range (I almost said "in the same ballpark", does that translate into the King's english?) I cannot believe some of the paint prices, especially for BIN.

As far as approaches go, in America everyone usually wants to try to newest and latest technology, materials, etc. If anything, we have probably gone the other extreme and lost some of the by hand craftsmanship. Hang in there with the sprayer though, if you find the right niche, the speed and quality of finish an airless provides will really set you apart over there. If you have not been using the Fine Finish tips (size 10 and 12 orifice) for waterbornes, gives them a try.

Joewho

Can't you buy sundries online? Is shipping too much?

RILEY PAINTING

Hi Phil,i Think That 3m Is Best Maybe Because Thats What I Started Using First.but All In All Anything By 3m And You Can't Go Wrong.

PowerPaintingUK

Yeah Dean, I just painted a big timber staircase in fantastic acrylic eggshell and used a 310 and a 312 to great effect So you pay $17 for 3M folded film eh?
I've noticed over the years that in a lot of areas the US goes for "newest, hi-tech" stuff and the UK goes for "tried and tested or reliable" stuff. We have a little too much tradition here and not enough "blending with the future"

PowerPaintingUK

If the store can be bothered they usually sort a good shipping price but if not then sometimes the shipping makes it too expensive to order. Small things are fairly easy and you have to consider import tax if it's from the states and not Europe. A lot of US stores wont ship to the UK. Having said that, I've just ordered a hopper kit from O-Gee in Florida and it's costing me $105 USD plus shipping, plus import tax at 18% BUT if I bought it here it would be £317.25(648.72 USD!!!!), just for the hopper, PLUS shipping

PowerPaintingUK

You're right but they're so expensive I now use Everbuild "Mammoth" blue painters tape and "Mammoth" purple low tack and I use the 3M green "hard to stick" tape because it's cheaper than the other 3M tapes.

PowerPaintingUK

When I'm spraying I try to earn at least £200 a day ($398US) to cover the amount of work I'm doing. I have a good reputation for quality plus over here airless spraying is thought of as superior and giving a superior finish. We dont usually back roll because that would spoil the smooth finish on the plaster. Our walls when plastered have a perfect finish that is then checked by the painter who fills and sands any small imperfections out before painting. All our walls and ceilings are fully plastered all over and we never just paint straight on to board. The builder builds the wall out of either brick, block or sometimes stud. Then he gets the wall boarded over with half inch gypsum plasterboard (drywall) or a sand & cement half inch skim over. Then the plasterers come in and skim the whole lot over with approx' 4-5 mm(just under 1/4 inch) of gypsum plaster. Ceilings are now always just boarded over joists and then again fully gypsum plastered to 4 or 5 mm. Only some cheap houses have stud walls here, most have brick or block built walls. If you tried to punch through a wall here you would break your hand. Because the walls and ceilings here are so perfectly finished before painting it means that when painted with airless the finished paint coat can be really very smooth and like paper to touch. When I paint with a roller though, I have to be really fast with the first coat rolling out because the plaster just sucks the paint into the wall really quickly. We usually do a "mist" coat first (like your primer coat) with watered down paint, then 2 coats of full strength to finish. With the airless rig though my mist coat is done with a much quicker pass that dries quickly and seals the plaster and so my top coat can go on after only 10 minutes provided that there are no imperfections in the plaster finish. If there are imperfections I just quickly sand them out or fill them in with lightweight filler that can be painted straight over. I put my "two" top coats on at the same time by doing a 50% over lap.

eagleandbaby

Just curious, and this is off topic. You have probably been asked this before but why do you capitalize every word in a sentence except the ones that are suppose to be capitalized. It seems this style would add alot of unnecessary effort of typing. It adds unnessary effort in reading.

I will wait for the great answer you have probably given before.

__________________
homemasters

Tony M

And sO eNds our enGLish LEsson for 2Day

eagleandbaby

Not yet. Correction:

and So Ends Our english Lesson For Today.

__________________
homemasters

PowerPaintingUK

a bit off topic but... lol

paint_booger

Thanks for the overseas perspective!

PowerPaintingUK

No problem mate I've been painting with airless for two years now but am still learning plenty from you guys

PowerPaintingUK

in my local Johnstones decorator centre (contractors paint store) I have just looked at the prices for Graco switch tips yesterday and they are now over £50 each, thats $100US + per tip and thats not the fine finish type either
I also noticed the price of Graco Cleanshot swivels....£170.08 thats $337.50US for a cleanshot swivel!

PowerPaintingUK

Hi everyone,
i was contacted by someone on here about the housing market etc in the UK. I thought I'd just share the "jist" of it here:
Hi *****, I am in Gloucestershire (Mid west) if you look on a map I am in *************. Housing here is booming? kind of.... It's slowing down now but we do still need to build 3 million new homes by 2020. The problem is making them affordable for new fist-time buyers. What's the payscale? I am not sure what you mean. Traditional painter & decorators here earn approx' £100 a day($200) if they are good. I earn about £200 a day using airless mainly because of the speed. Is it slow where you are ****? Building work here in the UK is a world away from the US. Building restrictions or "code" is very strict here and houses usually take a lot longer to build than they do in the states. All buildings are made of brick or concrete block & plaster and only some new builds use stud work and thats only some internal walls; and never load bearing walls. Also materials here cost the earth. having said all that though. We do have a large influx of european workers coming over (mainly polish)and taking up construction jobs but they are doing it for a fraction of the wages British workers would do it for. That's really pi**ing the British workers off big time. Luckily though, our standards are very high so it's not all that easy for the polish guys to just get stuck in to the job; they must learn a bit first. They are used to working in poland for £1.00 an hour though($2.US) so any work here is great as far as they are concerned. to be honest they are generally a good honest bunch; ( as long as I have work I don't really care, and my quality gets me more work) How is the pay stateside?

So, guys(&gals), how is it?

THINKPAINTING

How do ya live on $200.00 dollars a day? Do you work 52 weeks a year?