Okay, I Give Up... What's The Inside Joke With Behr Paint?

**Teetorbilt** · 09-02-2006, 06:42 PM

The old saw. You get what you pay for.

In today's world, where labor generally outstrips material costs, why try to 'cheap out' on materials?

BMAN · 09-02-2006, 07:23 PM

I do believe that behr is crap for a lot of reasons. The best three being it doesnt cover, it goes on too thick and sags and the last ebing that the color representation seems wrong compaed to swatches.

I do like the lowes stuff except for the sag factor.

A contractor needs more out of a paint then a homeowner.
A homeowner wants to use one coat and be done so when his HD or Lowes paint goes on thick he thinks its covering real well.

We need it to spread fast for easy cutting
We need good coverage and hiding ability.
It must level well to get rid of brush or roller marks
it needs to dry fast for recoating
We need the color to be consistent from one can to the next.

There is only one lowes paint that I would hang my hat on right next to SW or anybody else. It is the New duramax line of exterior paint. I have used it all summer and it is as good as or better than SW Duration for fifteen dollars less a gallon!!

George Z · 09-02-2006, 08:08 PM

It costs 3.75 a gallon to make and package most paint.
It costs maybe $4.00 for top line.

The you get what you pay for (25cents difference) argument, I am not so sure about.

Brushslingers · 09-02-2006, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Z

It costs 3.75 a gallon to make and package most paint.
It costs maybe $4.00 for top line.

The you get what you pay for (25cents difference) argument, I am not so sure about.

You ever see a Dutch Boy TV commercial?

steve-in-kville · 09-02-2006, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humble Abode

Steve,

I think the advice you got in the other thread ("Rentals & Apartments: What brand paint to use....") was good.

If you aren't using thousands or even hundreds of gallons of paint a year the low end stuff at SW is fine for your purposes.

I only say this because I have seen what renters can do in a matter of three years, they trash the place or their kids write all over the walls.

Sorry for the generalization but 90% of renters don't give a damn that you spent your time and money getting those walls to look good.

Having said that I still wouldn't recommend any HD or Lowe's Paint. Get the cheap stuff at Ace or True Value first. HD and Lowe's don't need or deserve your money.

/end rant
*steps down off soap box*

Lots of good info, thanks. So far this year, I've applied more paint than my first 8 years as a landlord or property manager. I've always been a SW fan since I get a healthy discount on their stuff. I've tried the various brands that Lowe's sells as well as the HD stuff.

The above posts are correct... I can get SW Pro-mar satin for less than a 5'er of Behr. That beings said, I've tried all varieties of primer. Who's comes out on top?? You guessed it, SW Pro-Block. That stuff will cover and stick to anything.

This morning I sprayed 8 gallon of Glidden over the Pro-block on a rehab. Looks good thus far. I used up a 5'er of the American Tradition (Lowes) primer yesterday... end up mixing Pro-block with it so it could be used. Stuff sagged all over and took forever to set-up and dry.

Humble- appreciate the post, you got it about right. I figure on repainting between tenants which averages about every three years or so. And you're right, if they don't own it, they don't care.

Keep the replies coming.

steve

George Z · 09-02-2006, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brushslingers

You ever see a Dutch Boy TV commercial?

No, we don't get that here.

Brushslingers · 09-02-2006, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Z

No, we don't get that here.

Heh, me neither... but we don't advertise things like that. Richards is made by PPG, and a decent paint, but it's cheaper because it's not the same quality as Pittsburg or Porter... therefore getting almost no marketing... hence the lesser price.

Point is, as a paint contractor you are SUPPOSED to have, so says OSHA, spec sheets on all paints you use... ever actually read them?

I think you'd be suprised... and yes they are free for each product a paint store sells. Some paints actually call for 200 square per gallon coverage, in 3 coats.

Flawless Finish · 09-02-2006, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Z

It costs 3.75 a gallon to make and package most paint.
It costs maybe $4.00 for top line.

The you get what you pay for (25cents difference) argument, I am not so sure about.

George, what are your sources?

dwbrooks · 09-02-2006, 10:17 PM

One of my good friends is a paint rep for shewin williams, he told me duration costs around $3.75 to make Promar 200 is around $2.OO

George Z · 09-02-2006, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brushslingers

Heh, me neither... but we don't advertise things like that. Richards is made by PPG, and a decent paint, but it's cheaper because it's not the same quality as Pittsburg or Porter... therefore getting almost no marketing... hence the lesser price.

Point is, as a paint contractor you are SUPPOSED to have, so says OSHA, spec sheets on all paints you use... ever actually read them?

I think you'd be suprised... and yes they are free for each product a paint store sells. Some paints actually call for 200 square per gallon coverage, in 3 coats.

I do read mostTechnical Data Sheets (TDS).
In fact I provide them with most proposals.
They are available for download at most manufacturers websites.
OSHA needs the Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS)
These do not tell you anything about performance or coverage.

George Z · 09-02-2006, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flawless Finish

George, what are your sources?

Someone well respected and involved in that side of the business.

Brushslingers · 09-02-2006, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Z

I do read mostTechnical Data Sheets (TDS).
In fact I provide them with most proposals.
They are available for download at most manufacturers websites.
OSHA needs the Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS)
These do not tell you anything about performance or coverage.

Alright, so you can tell me what the coverage rates are on Behr per mil as opposed to say, SW superpaint.

Case solved.

George Z · 09-02-2006, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brushslingers

Alright, so you can tell me what the coverage rates are on Behr per mil as opposed to say, SW superpaint.

Case solved.

Coverage per mil?
I don't get it explain.

I think I know what you are asking.
Claimed Super paint coverage is 350-400 sq/feet @4mils wet or 1.5 dry.

No TDS available from BEHR online.

Brushslingers · 09-02-2006, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Z

Coverage per mil?
I don't get it explain.

I'll do it for you... Behr highest quality vs PPG highest quality.

Behr.
Coverage is 250 to 400 sq. ft. (23-37m²) per gallon depending on the surface texture, porosity and application method.

PPG.
Coverage: 400 to 500 sq. ft./gal. (37 to 46 sq. m/3.78L)

Hmmmmmmm.... interesting.

Or maybe just SW Superpaint.

Coverage: 350 - 400 sq ft/gal
@ 4 mils wet: 1.3 mils dry

If you've ever worked on a union or goverment site, you know what per mil means, and live by it.

Or how about Dutchboy.
One gallon will cover 350-400 sq. ft. with one coat of paint. BUT - CONTAINS CRYSTALLINE SILICA

Can't use that with little preggy wife standing around eh? High build silica in an exterior to compete? Shame shame.

Getting the picture yet?

George Z · 09-02-2006, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brushslingers

I'll do it for you... Behr highest quality vs PPG highest quality.

Behr.
Coverage is 250 to 400 sq. ft. (23-37m²) per gallon depending on the surface texture, porosity and application method.

PPG.
Coverage: 400 to 500 sq. ft./gal. (37 to 46 sq. m/3.78L)

Hmmmmmmm.... interesting.

Or maybe just SW Superpaint.

Coverage: 350 - 400 sq ft/gal
@ 4 mils wet: 1.3 mils dry

If you've ever worked on a union or goverment site, you know what per mil means, and live by it.

The numbers above do not compute.

They all depend on the surface texture, porosity and application method.
You won't get Manor Hall to do 500 sq feet/gal no matter what the claim is.

Brushslingers · 09-02-2006, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Z

The numbers above do not compute.

They all depend on the surface texture, porosity and application method.
You won't get Manor Hall to do 500 sq feet/gal no matter what the claim is.

It was you that said TDS are online.. those are all online, now you say it doesn't matter.

Heh, night George.

George Z · 09-02-2006, 11:45 PM

Ben,
No, I don't get the picture.
Could you please explain what you are talking about?
We all have something to learn here.

Brushslingers · 09-03-2006, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Z

Ben,
No, I don't get the picture.
Could you please explain what you are talking about?
We all have something to learn here.

Ok, I take back my goodnight for a moment. Here's a last teaser.

Porter Acri-pro
Recommended Film Thickness:
Wet: 4.0 mils
Dry: 1.2 mils

Those numbers are the ones that matter.. who gives a hoot if a paint "claims" to cover 800 sqaure.. it's the mil that matters, THAT is coverege. In industrial applications, goverment jobs and almost all commercial jobs the mil is specced in the prints, if it takes 15 coats of Behr to get to 7 mils, no.. I don't think i'd stick that on my website either.

The ones that DO post their mil, are the ones you see on commercial and industrial applications. Who do you want backing up your information, someone that hides thier per mil or someone that sticks it out there for ya? In most industrial applications it is REQUIRED that you reach at least 7 to 12 mil worth of paint to finish the job... using acri-pro it would take 8 coats to meet the minimum... next time you are in HD buying your Behr, ask for the mil rating.

BTW, most Residental coatings are 3 mil to finish, not many contractors check.. but.... Ask your rep about the warranty and how many mils are required... you may choke. Those 8 year warranty and 10 year warranty etc are not always upfront, you MUST use X primer and two coat to not void warranty... because of the mil. Check out a google on paint thickness and testers/meters.

Edit - Oh, and the crack I made about Silca... it's a cancer causing agent (Fine sand) that can close your lungs up if you aren't careful, used in high build paints to add more weight. More weight, more hide. The highest build paints use silca sand to increase the weight and hide of the paint, thus, high build. Normally used on , well... problems.

George Z · 09-03-2006, 12:43 AM

Thanks for explaining Ben,

"next time you are in HD buying your Behr, ask for the mil rating."

No I don't use BEHR and the way I feel about Home Depot is well stated
in a some posts here.
My point had more to do with whether one corporate chemical soup
is better than another.
Silica today, Lead and Mercury yesterday.
Lawsuits are pending everywhere, some are here already(SW as well)
In other words, I care about my customers my painters and my company.
I don't care to praise one paint over another (their job).
If a paint the customer chose doesn't hide well the following
in our contract covers it:

"Price quoted is based on two coats on the walls, one on woodwork and trim and one on the ceilings, unless otherwise noted. Additional coats, or priming are subject to extra charges.
We are not responsible for the performance and quality of customer supplied or specified paints."

An extra coat is a change order.

Brushslingers · 09-03-2006, 12:53 AM

Then why did you argue about the .25 cent difference? Heh, you confuse me almost as much as Paul.

Nice line on the contract though, can I borrow that? I'd change it a little but still, good statement.

09-02-2006, 06:42 PM	#21
Teetorbilt View Profile Teetorbilt Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (10,475) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Residential Contractor Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Jensen Beach, FL Posts: 10,475	Re: Okay, I Give Up... What's The Inside Joke With Behr Paint? The old saw. You get what you pay for. In today's world, where labor generally outstrips material costs, why try to 'cheap out' on materials? __________________ You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems. Albert Einstein

09-02-2006, 07:23 PM	#22
BMAN View Profile BMAN Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (468) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Painting & Remodeling Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 468	Re: Okay, I Give Up... What's The Inside Joke With Behr Paint? I do believe that behr is crap for a lot of reasons. The best three being it doesnt cover, it goes on too thick and sags and the last ebing that the color representation seems wrong compaed to swatches. I do like the lowes stuff except for the sag factor. A contractor needs more out of a paint then a homeowner. A homeowner wants to use one coat and be done so when his HD or Lowes paint goes on thick he thinks its covering real well. We need it to spread fast for easy cutting We need good coverage and hiding ability. It must level well to get rid of brush or roller marks it needs to dry fast for recoating We need the color to be consistent from one can to the next. There is only one lowes paint that I would hang my hat on right next to SW or anybody else. It is the New duramax line of exterior paint. I have used it all summer and it is as good as or better than SW Duration for fifteen dollars less a gallon!!

09-02-2006, 08:08 PM	#23
George Z View Profile George Z Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,836) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Painting Contractor Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,836	Re: Okay, I Give Up... What's The Inside Joke With Behr Paint? It costs 3.75 a gallon to make and package most paint. It costs maybe $4.00 for top line. The you get what you pay for (25cents difference) argument, I am not so sure about. __________________ Toronto Painters Commercial Painting Commercial Painting Toronto Toronto Office Painters Painting Toronto Blog

09-02-2006, 10:17 PM	#29
dwbrooks View Profile dwbrooks Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (67) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Member Trade: Painting Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 67	Re: Okay, I Give Up... What's The Inside Joke With Behr Paint? One of my good friends is a paint rep for shewin williams, he told me duration costs around $3.75 to make Promar 200 is around $2.OO

09-02-2006, 11:45 PM	#37
George Z View Profile George Z Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,836) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Painting Contractor Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,836	Re: Okay, I Give Up... What's The Inside Joke With Behr Paint? Ben, No, I don't get the picture. Could you please explain what you are talking about? We all have something to learn here. __________________ Toronto Painters Commercial Painting Commercial Painting Toronto Toronto Office Painters Painting Toronto Blog

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09-03-2006, 12:43 AM	#39
George Z View Profile George Z Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,836) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Painting Contractor Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,836	Re: Okay, I Give Up... What's The Inside Joke With Behr Paint? Thanks for explaining Ben, "next time you are in HD buying your Behr, ask for the mil rating." No I don't use BEHR and the way I feel about Home Depot is well stated in a some posts here. My point had more to do with whether one corporate chemical soup is better than another. Silica today, Lead and Mercury yesterday. Lawsuits are pending everywhere, some are here already(SW as well) In other words, I care about my customers my painters and my company. I don't care to praise one paint over another (their job). If a paint the customer chose doesn't hide well the following in our contract covers it: "Price quoted is based on two coats on the walls, one on woodwork and trim and one on the ceilings, unless otherwise noted. Additional coats, or priming are subject to extra charges. We are not responsible for the performance and quality of customer supplied or specified paints." An extra coat is a change order. __________________ Toronto Painters Commercial Painting Commercial Painting Toronto Toronto Office Painters Painting Toronto Blog

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