Nicotine Nightmare - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

outsidethelines · 02-26-2008, 12:15 PM

I have come across a house where the previous homeowner was a heavy smoker for yeeeeeeaaaarrrrrssss!!! Every inch of the house dons a nice deep amber glow.

She has passed on now and the two daughters have to sell her home. I am hired to paint it and I want to use the most effective product I can find to seal every inch of that house. I figure after a good TSP cleaning, I’ll mask it real well and spray prime every painted surface with a shellac primer. Q: Which product brand would you use?
As for the kitchen, there is some well aged vinyl wall paper on some of the surfaces and I need to know the best way to remove it.

Thepaintman · 02-26-2008, 01:29 PM

I have painted many (too many) of these. I just gave an estimate on a place Saturday. The owner smoked cigars and its everywhere.

I use Zinsser's Cover Stain tinted 1/2 formula of the finish color and spray. Make sure you mask off well and that you and who ever helps you wears a respirator when spraying and also when the topcoat is applied. This is some mean stuff but it does work. Do not use a waterborne product not matter what the can says.

Have fun,
Jerry

GoodPainter · 02-26-2008, 01:31 PM

As far as priming I prime with Zinsser Coverstain high hide Oil based

Did a job along the lines of yours with it and I gave up on washing the walls
because it was nonsense. Got away with 1 coat tinted Zinsser and one topcoat
of finish.
I have a pic of it on my website under Interior pictures the top pics before and after
In the bathroom they must have "hung out" in there with tar running down the walls (I did have to wash the walls in there)-- I had to do 2-3 coats of

Zinsser there with two topcoats.

As far as the paper removal, get as much off as possible and sand(feather) the
edges of what wont come off and possible do a coat or three of Zinsser
on that surface before finishing

jcalvin · 02-26-2008, 03:02 PM

I helped my dad on a rental were the tenant was a smoker. It was a prefinished paneling and they didn't want the expense of the rip off and redo. We got some sort of industrial cleaner and some $2 mops at the dollar store and went to town. It really suprised me how well they cleaned off. When you would spray the wall, it would look like yellow paint rolling off of it.

Thepaintman · 02-26-2008, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outsidethelines

As for the kitchen, there is some well aged vinyl wall paper on some of the surfaces and I need to know the best way to remove it.

Usually you can just pull the vinyl paper off dry. When the vinyl is remove there may be a thin paper membrane. I use DIF to remove the membrane and the glue behind. Follow the instructions!!! You MUST REMOVE the glue and do it well!! I also use plastic putty knife to help prevent damage to the walls. Then the primer.

Sir Mixalot · 02-26-2008, 05:18 PM

For smoke or water stains, Kilz oil has never let me down. Be sure to wear a respirator and googles. Good Luck!

outsidethelines · 02-26-2008, 07:08 PM

Thank you for all the advice. I finally reached my brother-in-law today (GC), and he insisted I should not bother cleaning with the TSP. I am not so sure about this because the walls are really bad. Esp. in the livingroom. Q: Should I just clean in the worst areas and not bother with the rest? Also, should I plan on doing more than one coat of primer in the really bad areas?

I once painted a house that was painted by the sellers just prior to selling and once I got started, it became evident that it had been a similar situation. Because once we starting rolling the walls, all these brown stains started coming through the paint. I ended up spot priming with zinsser cover stain in some rooms and used three coats of paint in others. I'm sure they must have done something before they painted, but whatever it was, it did not hold up to being painted a second time. It was sort of a mytery. I was so glad to be done there.

The main thing is that I don't want that to happen to my paint job. Once this house sells, if they decide to change the colors (you know they will), I don't want all that nicotine to bleed through again. Why do I care? Integrity! That is what my business was built on.

Also, I will try the DIF as Thepaintman suggested. Thank you. I'll take care of the wallpaper before we prime everything so that way it will all be primed together.

Thepaintman · 02-26-2008, 07:34 PM

[quote=outsidethelines;387267]Q: Should I just clean in the worst areas and not bother with the rest? Also, should I plan on doing more than one coat of primer in the really bad areas?

I would not try to clean the stains on the flat walls but any surfaces that have semi-gloss enamel I would attempt to clean. With my past jobs I only coated one coat of Cover Stain with no problems. Also a note: Having the paint store tint your Cover Stain 1/2 formula of the finish topcoat helps to cover in one coat. I am doing a job next week where we will be applying a tan oil based enamel on the walls that are currently white. I will have my Cover Stain tinted 1/2 formula so one coat of the semi-gloss will be all that is necessary.

Have fun,

Jerry

outsidethelines · 02-26-2008, 08:04 PM

[quote=Thepaintman;387304I would not try to clean the stains on the flat walls but any surfaces that have semi-gloss enamel I would attempt to clean. With my past jobs I only coated one coat of Cover Stain with no problems. Also a note: Having the paint store tint your Cover Stain 1/2 formula of the finish topcoat helps to cover in one coat. I am doing a job next week where we will be applying a tan oil based enamel on the walls that are currently white. I will have my Cover Stain tinted 1/2 formula so one coat of the semi-gloss will be all that is necessary.

Have fun,

Jerry[/quote]

yea, really good point about the semigloss. I forgot I would still need to do that anyway.

I agree about the tint. I will be using BM Linen White on all the ceilings, closets, cabinets, windows, doors and trim. So, I guess I'll tint it for that, because all the rooms will be different colors and I can't tint primer for all of them.

Hey Jerry, I just realized you are sort of in my neck of the woods. In fact my family lives right there in Manteca.

**slickshift** · 02-26-2008, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outsidethelines

...a heavy smoker for yeeeeeeaaaarrrrrssss!!! Every inch of the house dons a nice deep amber glow. ....I figure after a good TSP cleaning, ...spray prime every painted surface with a shellac primer. Q: Which product brand would you use?

You have a good plan

Quote:

Originally Posted by outsidethelines

Thank you for all the advice. I finally reached my brother-in-law today (GC), and he insisted I should not bother cleaning with the TSP.

Do not go with painting advice from a GC

Almost better off asking the guy at Home Despot for painting advice

...nahh, that's still worse

Quote:

Originally Posted by outsidethelines

I once painted a house ...etc...It was sort of a mytery....

No mystery
That's what happens when you don't clean first
...and don't seal properly
Probably used a latex "stain killer" (ha ha haha) like Kilz2 (<useless)
And it worked...almost
The repaint activated the crappy "sealer" and voila! Instant Stained Walls!
Musta looked like the Amityville Horror in there

outsidethelines · 02-26-2008, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slickshift

Musta looked like the Amityville Horror in there

It sure felt like it for a while.

Royal-T · 02-26-2008, 10:22 PM

Learned this one in Nam, Get a garden sprayer( pump style) mix a 50/50 solution of vinager/water and spray the paper down. Let it soak in for a few minutes and come back through with a scraper. GENTLY scrape the paper and glue of and it comes of amazingly easy, just remember not to go gouging the wallboard. The house smells like douche for a few hours after but it disipates and by the time you paint it the smell will be gone.

softtop95ta · 02-26-2008, 11:16 PM

smoke a few ounces of the greatest weed you can in the house ,it will cover the nicoteen with that sweet sticky icky and problem will be solved

mdshunk · 02-26-2008, 11:19 PM

I was working in a house maybe 2 or 4 years ago like this. I was there to start to take out all the switches and receptacles (they were orange too), and the painters were upstairs starting to wash down the walls. The smell from their wash water was enough to make you puke. Man, if you think the house smells bad, wait until you "reactivate" it with water. That is one foul smell.

outsidethelines · 03-20-2008, 04:00 PM

So, I finished the house last Friday and attended the realtors opening today to see it staged, take pics, and to drum up business with other realtors. It looks awesome. I think I did a great job choosing the colors and the realtor who is selling the house is RAVING about my work.
As suggested, I used the Zinsser Cover Stain. It worked great. We did TSP first and you can’t believe how much nicotine we had to wash through. I actually wore a good quality dust mask during the first stage of the job, because the nicotine smell was so strong, it was making me cough (and I wasn’t even the one doing the washing). The wall paper removal was easy in some places and difficult in others. The part that was vinyl was easy like you said, but in some places where it was paper, there were so many layers, we had to just remove what we could and then I primed and spackled over the rest. It looks so great, you can’t tell there was ever paper anywhere in that house.
Thank you for all the great feedback. Being able to communicate with you guys has really helped take some of the fear out of dealing with the challenges I have come across. This house has truly experienced a metamorphosis. I would like to be able to show the before and after pics, if someone can help explain to me how to post them. Thanks so much

**slickshift** · 03-20-2008, 04:21 PM

Thanks for the update

ModernStyle · 03-22-2008, 07:35 PM

I usually go with BIN, it will seal in the odor and dries faster then cover stain. It is pretty nasty to work with if you are not used to it, but IMO it is the best for killing nicotine and smoke damage.

Steve Richards · 03-23-2008, 12:40 PM

Side note..don't put BIN through your (old) sprayer with the gun attached.

It's alcohol based, and will "move" all the old/hidden/dried up latex paint left anywhere in the system right right up to your gun, bust the handle filter, and make for a huge mess.

..at least that's what I've heard

ModernStyle · 03-23-2008, 06:44 PM

I usually rent a rig from Home Depot if I have a bunch of BIN to spray, I dont care for it in my own equipment. I have run it in my machines before, I just rinse the hell out of them before and after using it. Gun filters are cheap, i would just use a new one. My Spraytech doesnt have a manifold filter, so I change the filter in the gun all of the time and put a d!ck strainer on it. BIN is pretty nasty stuff, but it is the best if you need to cover up smoke or water stains.