? new work paint prices need advice! - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

billderboots · 12-19-2008, 08:30 PM

I recently took on my builders paint work. I need help figuring whats fair in pricing I guess the best way you all can help is to know the details.
They are 2 story townhouse units.
3800 sq ft floor area + 600 sq ft garage area
1st floor is 9' 6" ceiling height
2nd floor 8' ceilings
ceilings and walls 2 color. white ceilings, dover white walls, trim dover satin.
downstairs= multi color with crown mouldings throughout.
dining has chair rail with panel box lower same in foyer and up the stairwall.
library has box beam ceilings. with book cases on whole wall.
all trim is custom wide beaded(lots of sanding time)
I originally told him going in that I would be billing about 2.50 sq ft across the board which he verbally agreed to.
I billed him 70% at about 90% complete. all i had was final sanding on trim and gloss coat.
He covered materials. Now im ready to bill the final 30% and he is telling me the last house with the other fellas he had was the same price i gave but it had 300sq ft more area and they supplied the material.
He asked me took look at my man hours and see if i was treating him fair. after checking my mens time cards over I see i got appx 250 man hours in this job. so im coming out with about 35.00 man hour
I think this is on par with the other work i do for him. he would like to see me drop about 1600 for material. what do you guys think the best way to approach this and was my sq footage price fair? thanks guys

DecksEtc · 12-19-2008, 09:26 PM

What does your contract say?

**slickshift** · 12-19-2008, 09:29 PM

Stick to your guns, hope for the best
Never, ever, do work w/o a signed contract again

world llc · 12-20-2008, 07:37 AM

contract is a contract period

i usually do 2.50 a foot too but that includes material... of coarse all the extra trim you described would be extra

SLSTech · 12-20-2008, 08:23 AM

Verbal contracts are legit - better in writing though

Stick to your guns response: I would state to him, I did review the man hours like you requested & yes I believe we did a high quality job at a fair price. Full Stop, don't try to elaborate

Reading between the lines, you don't fully know your own numbers which is an issue - no 2 jobs are ever the same. You may make a killing at those prices on 1 job & loose the shirt off your back on another. (Most painters I work with like to supply their materials for quality reason's etc...) How much would you charge for the job mentioned above, if you were supplying materials?

A give in response - assuming you have made enough & if it appears to be a prudent thing to do: I believe we did a high quality job at a fair price, however, we did manage to complete it a little quicker than planned so how about we split the cost of materials --- or something similar

kevjob · 12-20-2008, 12:56 PM

He should have hire the other guy then, re negotiating after the contract has been signed and when the work is 90% completed is BS.

No discounts or splitting the materials the price is your price to do the job not trying to beat out everbody else, I have a client now on a basement remodel who thinks they should receive discounts on painting because they think it should not have cost that much. I told them the price is the price and you signed my contract the time for questions is before signing not after. No discount given.

billderboots · 12-20-2008, 02:25 PM

I agree with all your posts! unfortunately with this particular builder i never had any signed contracts we never needed them he always up until now kicked about any of my prices etc..
yes my position was not to negotiate with him. I called him back the next day told him i ran the numbers and felt he was treated fairly period.
but the when he brought my check out several weeks back for the 70% he again told me he would like negotiate the final bill a little.
this pisses me off. cause now i feel like now that i got the job done and you all know how you have to babysit the building on the final walkout.

Danahy · 12-20-2008, 04:18 PM

The comparison between u and the other guy is an ugly situation. The good thing is, next time you'll tend to cover these issues before they come up. Peronally I don't price match or beat anyone elses to land a job, and the fact that it pops up later on would bug the sh$t outta me. I worry about my own costs, and don't care about the other guys, so obviously we're gonna be different. Settle up the last bill as best as u can for now, then on paper and in your head firm up on ur numbers for that guys particular work. You might just be experiencing a negotiation tactic on the builders part, reasonably common practice imo. Seems like neither him or you know exactly where the line should be drawn. You're being compared to a person who no longer holds the contract. I think if a person confidently knows his numbers it's hard for anyone to push him to far beyond that line. Each time I come across those situations a new little gem of experience is gained, and I adapt my contract to help sort any future occurances. Good Luck. Hope it works out for ya.

Burby · 12-20-2008, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billderboots

I agree with all your posts! unfortunately with this particular builder i never had any signed contracts we never needed them he always up until now kicked about any of my prices etc..
yes my position was not to negotiate with him. I called him back the next day told him i ran the numbers and felt he was treated fairly period.
but the when he brought my check out several weeks back for the 70% he again told me he would like negotiate the final bill a little.
this pisses me off. cause now i feel like now that i got the job done and you all know how you have to babysit the building on the final walkout.

If you have worked in the past with a verbal, you are as good as written, (in most states), if you budge he will push & then that is your mistake.
He thinks the other guys were more fair in pricing, where are they?? Next job hire them. You may have done well on this job but it does not mean you will next job, so hang onto every dollar. Including lien if needed. He goes to sell that house, he will pay full price. If he is carrying your insurance for you, then again that is your mistake, but if all is as you say, don;t let him make you a hooker and move on price. Ask him if you can see his profit margin on the last few houses..

WisePainter · 12-20-2008, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burby

If you have worked in the past with a verbal, you are as good as written, (in most states), if you budge he will push & then that is your mistake.
He thinks the other guys were more fair in pricing, where are they?? Next job hire them. You may have done well on this job but it does not mean you will next job, so hang onto every dollar. Including lien if needed. He goes to sell that house, he will pay full price. If he is carrying your insurance for you, then again that is your mistake, but if all is as you say,don;t let him make you a hooker and move on price. Ask him if you can see his profit margin on the last few houses..

Bottom line.
Your Momma ain't around to fight your battles, you are gonna have to man up and set him straight.

billderboots · 12-21-2008, 05:58 PM

. Ask him if you can see his profit margin on the last few houses..

[/quote]

Boy i would that would go over like a lead balloon! But your right I got about as much right in seeing his bottom line as he does protesting mine! I will never forget one time upon paying of my billings he approached me and said and i quote! (Hey i would like to see your kids go to college I just dont wanna be the one that pays for it). How bout that