New to commercial - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

GMPainting · 12-04-2005, 10:59 PM

Hey guys I am new to this site, I work mostly new luxury residential work, but it is really slowing down. I looked at commercial but how do you estimate large buildings like schools. is there a national going rate? need help. Thank you

Bob Kovacs · 12-05-2005, 10:41 AM

There's no "national going rate" for anything- regardless of whether it's residential, commercial, or bridge painting, you need to quantify the amount of work to be done, determine your material costs, your labor hours, equipment rentals, etc., add it all up and add for overhead and profit. I'm assuming you're doing something else stupid (not to be harsh) like using SF pricing based on the SF of the house currently, so you wouldn't be asking about "national going rates". That'll have you working at Home Depot in no time, especially in commercial work.

With schools and other public work, there are additional items to be cognizant of:

- You'll most likely need to pay "prevailing wages" on public projects. With that comes the need for tracking certified payroll, as well as minority participation

- Commercial contracts are usually much slower to pay than residential. You normally invoice at the end of the month, wait a minimum of 30 days to get paid, and have 5-10% retention held until the job is complete. Make sure you're able to handle waiting for your money that long.

- There are often "liquidated damages" that are assessed to the GC if the project is late. You can be sure that they'll be passed down to you if you caused the delay.

In general, think long and hard about your capabilities (both field performance and business acumen) before you pursue a commercial job- especially publicly bid work.

Bob

GMPainting · 12-05-2005, 11:00 AM

Thanks bob. I am used to sf prices. Usally I have three home compainies that paysomewhere in the 3.50 sf price range. Most of my guys have commercial experience. so I am good on that. I have also done a couple of shpping centers and furniture stores. I really want to get into commercial fully.

**ProWallGuy** · 12-05-2005, 11:32 AM

Great advice Bob!!!

Bob Kovacs · 12-05-2005, 08:07 PM

Thank you gentlemen. I'm currently the Director of Estimating for a commercial GC that opened its doors in February of this year, and has already booked over $300 million of work, including a number of public jobs. So if there's anything I know about ad nauseum, it's commercial work. Anything I can do to help.

Bob

saucedo80 · 12-05-2005, 09:43 PM

I have a question for you Bob, and I sure hope you can give me an answer since you gave some great advice in this thread. It doesn't pertain to estimating, but it deals with workmens comp insurance. I just went into buisness for myself this past May. I have been working by myself so far so I haven't had to get workmens comp, I want to have a steady flow of work before I hire a permanent employee. Anyways, I just landed a job for this coming January and its a two story victorian. The customer wants a color scheme consisting of six colors. I would have taken the job working by myself, however the customer has a deadline. The only way to meet the deadline is to hire one or two guys. I already have the guys that i want in mind, however I will probably only need them for this one job, since my workflow still isn't constant. I already went to local insurance agencies and asked them about my situation. However they were no help.

Is there some kind of insurance that would cover these guys temporarily while this job is going on? I don't find it logical to begin the insurance application process right now because by the time I actaully get insured this job might be over and i will resume to working by myself again.
I am located in Calfornia.

Bob Kovacs · 12-06-2005, 06:52 AM

Call one of the local "LaborTemps" companies and see if you can get your guys put on their payroll system. You'd then hire the guys through LaborTemps, and they'd be covered for WC (at least the offices in Las Vegas had their guys covered). Other than that, you're stuck opening a policy, which may not be too bad since you only pay on actual wages paid to the employees- if you only have your employees for a month or so, you only pay for that time.

Bob

electro · 12-13-2005, 08:03 PM

Bob,
I run a commercial painting company here in NJ. I wonder if we have worked on any similar projects.

Brian Drucks
http://www.drucksinc.com