Need More Estimates Before I Can Decide.

Mr. Mike

It takes me about 1 minute to walk around a house and measure 200 feet of over hang. It would take you longer than that and you would be guessing. One guy on here said they charge $2.50 per linear ft. to paint overhang and I charge over $10.00 so if you are in between that go ahead and guess.



It looks like a $20,000.00 to $25,000.00 job to me.

If you feel like you really don't have a chance to win that job, tell us where it's at I will one cal close them.

Measuring takes the guess work out, Sport please go over your contract last week about measuring.

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Sportioli

I lost one a few weeks ago to a lowballer. The client had called and verbally comitted to a price I'd left with him the week before, only to call back an hour later and tell me he'd changed his mind... The reason being? He'd just discovered how out of line my price was.

When I said "Out of line how?" He says "you're to high". Before I got off the phone with him we ran through some numbers on the man hours and paint cost and the guy had to admit that the numbers after reviewing them were indeed inline.

But he went with the low baller anyway. Even when I pointed out to him that the other guy estimating the job hadn't even measured, so how could he even know how much paint to buy. The home owner was at a loss as to how the guy could order paint without knowing how much area would be painted.

If you don't measure the job, then your guessing at the cost. Customers don't realize it till I come in and measure behind you, and at the same time make small talk about the bids they've received so far.

I'll ask them something like this.. Are my measurements matching your previous company's measurements? They'll look at me and say something like " you know, the guy didn't even measure". That's when I ask in a shocked voice "well how in the world do they know if it's an accurate price they gave you?"

It totally unhinges the customer from the other painters price.. which it turns out is just a guess.

Dorman just take a tape and measure around some. You'd be surprised how much more confidence the customer will have in your numbers. I've asked around about you as we're both in the same small town. Your customers love your work, and I've never heard one bad word about you. Measureing doesn't take long and the customers really like it.

I have one of those little laser measurers from home depot. It's the best $29.95 I ever spent!

It's crazy!

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Mr. Mike

I have asked around as well and have been told the same things from paint stores and customers about Dorman. Good job on keeping everything going Dorman I just wish you measured and did not guess. Whats good for you is good for all of us.


Sport I'm glad you got me off that one forum and put me over here. I like the diversity this site has Nobody ever agrees. lol

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Mr. Mike

Just so we all know, I never measured anything for my first 5 years in business because I did not know better. Back to the if you always do what you always did you will always get what you always got.

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Static Design

Why do painters where white pants? Does the same theory apply for guys as it does for girls wearing white pants? They love butt sechs???

Mr. Mike

We use more white than anything else, the putty is white, the caulk is white, the trim paint is white, the closets are white, the ceilings are white, and even outside most all trim is white. Since more white gets on us than anything else we wear white pants. Now back in the days you could get your house painted any color you wanted as long as it was white so the painters could of started it back when all we had was white paint.

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SelfContract

Wearing white clothes is good for painters for 3 reasons:

1. Easy to see if you drop, speck, smear, or spatter, or sprinkle paint drops onto other places somewhere ...besides your clothes??..

PURPOSE = BE MORE CAREFUl & SLOW DOWN & WATCH YOU ARE DOING!!

2. After see drops or taints on clothes, we can see what color, how much, or where that drops and/or smears come from??

PURPOSE = BE CORRECTIVE ACTION, REPAINT that wall/door/handle/trim, etc. that smeared and/or touch-up again somewhere if you make mistakes touching those still-wet paints, etc..

3. Finally, its is VERY PROFESSIONAL for... PAINTERS to be white image and to RESPECT of other COLORS being painted EVERYWHERE!! LOL


P.S, Btw, Mr. Mike, I remember you from seeing.. that 70s show on TV.. j/k

Dave Mac

Square fooot and linear foot pricing, item pricing all should have a common denominator, that start off with production rates, and material cost that have been converted over to square foot, item and linear foot pricing. imo

So in theory your squre foot price is made by your hourly rate, and spread rate for the materials.

Doorman that was for you.

measuring is good and all, but not needed for all items such as shutters, doors, windows, or even with a lot of expereince you can eyeball the paint needed for a bedroom and things you have painted a thousand times, like foyers, great rooms, stairwells.

I do both ways, depends on how Im feeling lol. If a customers makes a comment to me like your the only guy who has not measured, I reply "yea I had to measure when I was first starting out to" ha ha measuring is good, and I try to force myself to do it most of the time.

dave

capital city

Im trying to figure out how everything is a guess if you dont measure. Mike you said you have it figured for every situation. How? Do you have a price set up for a master bedroom that has double trey ceilings, with 1 water stain, double crown at every level, a accent wall, 5 nail pops, dimpled nail heads, some caulk that needs to be cut out, and one hot milf? lol. Seriously every situation is different and I dont need to have 100 formulas to figure out how much Im going to charge to paint a house. If you are in big commercial painting or do alot of production houses then yes use your formulas. As for residential repaints Im with Dorman I like to figure up my man hours and go from there. And its not a guess when your right.

WisePainter

Is that a repaint, and is the milf blonde or brunette (the job is free if she is a redhead!)?



I would do the job (alone) as a repaint for $750.00 and 3 days, client provides all materials.

what do I win?

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My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

javatom

I sub out my painting but I love hangin out with you guys. This is better entertainment than watching a movie. I can't wait for the sequel.

WisePainter

ahhh a GC in our midst.

Or as I like to call them "the person that always tells me my numbers don't match the one in his head" guy.

Open season in the paint forum!

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My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

Mr. Mike

I do not guess on rooms at all like bedrooms and certainly not stairwells or great rooms the only guessing I may do is on a bathroom or closet.



Ok lets say we measured and the room is 15x23 and 10ft. tall.

Walls: 2 coats at 760 sq. ft. x _______= a figured price from your materials spread rate calculations.

Ceiling: 2 coats at 345 sq. ft. x _______= a figured price from your materials spread rate calculations.

Accent wall add on charge 210 sq. ft. x ___________= a figured price from your materials spread rate calculations.

Double Crown molding 152 ln. ft. of crown molding x ___________= a figured price from your materials spread rate calculations.


Lets take the guess work out of it, after a hand full of jobs the guessing should be done, I used to guess for the first 5 years and over 1000 jobs but I do not no more and will not ever again, it is way to easy to know for sure.

Ok and if your eyeball measurements are off this should effect the bid. Dorman can't figure the man hours because it is a guess, to measure and then say you can paint x per hour is a more accurate than looking and eyeballing a job.

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Dave Mac

Mike telling these guys with years of experience that guessing is guessing is wrong. Guessing is when you know nothing.or have no expereince with something.

They are estimating, sorry but if your only estimating one bed room and you have done a thousand of them, you know your gonna use a gallon and a half, your estimate is 2 galls, so does it matter if you measure I think not. you know you can paint the room in five hours, however you need to charge a full 8 hrs, does it matter if you measure, I think not. It would not hurt to measure. I guess if you dont have expereince or confidence in your eyeballing ability you better measure lol I do agree its better measure everything, but I dont for situations like I just described.

Mr. Mike

Ok lets look at that quote in this scenario, you eye balled it and figured 2 gallons, your using Aura at over $50.00 per gallon and it took a partial 3rd gallon...

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Mr. Mike

That's guessing, Dmac I know it may not feel like it but it is. Doorman comes in here a few months ago and states nobody is taking his bids this and that and now comes in here and states that he never measures, so if he does not measure and has no notes on what he needs to charge then there is no way he can charge the exact same for two exact same jobs meaning there is no way for him to truley understand why he does not win these bids.

I charge the same way on every job, I can relay to the prospects that I charge the same on every job and then I can show them how I do that by measureing and then using my price book. Now with the confidence and the proof that I bring to the table I feel I can close them on every visit.

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Dave Mac

I can eyeball 15ft with in a foot or two all day long, so if I dont measure is it really guessing??/ I think not.

When you measure do you deduct the square foot of doors windows, angles of walls, I bet you dont, therefore your guessing even if you measure lol

WisePainter

Believe it or not, that is a question that haunts me to this day.
My bids are based on my skill, application rates, and which shut off notice needs to be paid first.





The cable bill wins out every time!

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My advice: Hire a real painter to do it.

Mr. Mike

A foot or two is 1.5 feet.

1.5 feet is 10% of 15 feet, so you may be consistently off by 10% on every gross bid you do. So in return you are possibly giving away 20% of your profit with out knowing it.

Let me know what you think about that math.

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Mr. Mike

Cable wins here also.



Dave Mac to answer your question.

I do not take out for those items however I do need to have left over paint at the end so this amount of not taking up paint space is perfect for that also you know and realize it takes longer to cut in a window or door than it would if you just rolled that area so leaving the sq. ft. in of that area in your math will allow you to make money for cutting in an opening.

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