back@it

Just wondering how some of you guys that have been working solo - or at least, with a helper now and then - have transitioned over the years as you have "aged"?! Let me explain why I'm asking such a question!

I have worked by myself for a number of years, frankly, because I like working alone as I can control the WHOLE project "large" or small. I don't worry about trying to keep another person 'busy' with ~40 hr week and I can finish up early, work late, whatever I want to do, I do. I use equipment to my benefit, i.e. - lift units instead of extention ladders and planks where possible or airless spray where at all possible - so I have been able to turn out some fairly good-sized jobs by myself.

(This is tough but I'm gonna say it!) Also I have this "flaw" that MAYBE some of you guys can relate to, that is: Nobody can get the job done up to my quality standards!!! BEFORE YOU GO AND MAKE CONCLUSIONS ABOUT ME, let me just say that I KNOW there are guys that are every bit as good at laying down a nice slick finish, or able to roll walls leaving a clean, uniform and smooth stipple (no boogers left on the walls!) or show up on the job with 'clean' painter's clothing - not the pants that will stand up on their own! I just have not spent any real time finding them yet. ANYWAY - you get the idea of what kind of egomaniac I am by what I have just typed, I'm sure! Really though, if we met you wouldn't guess it about me, I think(?)!

It is getting incramentally harder (turning 54 this month) to PYSICALLY do some of the work I have taken for granted all through the years. I have been blessed with very good health over the years but I am beginning to see small changes in my ability to do certain aspects of the work. I am considering TRYING to transition to be a job 'broker' so to speak. Look for two or three, maybe four, good quality painting crews (1-3 persons each) and just subbing the larger jobs that I just simply can't take on any more. I will continue doing the smaller and more managable ones and just secure the contracts for larger exteriors, for example, and then 'selling' that contract to one of 'my' sub-contractors. I know it can be risky but I think it can be done.

Question: Have any here done this successfully and how long did it take to find your 'good' subs? What are a few of the not-so-obvious potholes I need to be aware of?

A FOOTNOTE HERE: Because I was stupid in the first 38-40 years of my life and didn't put away for my later years, I do need to continue working in order to continue supporting my wonderful wife and stay-at-home and home-schooling mother to our 9 year old son and 8 year old daughter (that's right, 9 and 8! and I wouldn't take a million $ for either one!). So...beware young ones, put away some $ regularly even when you can't seem to afford it. You'll thank me some day !

Steve Richards

I'm getting to be kind of an old fart too.

I've been through quite a few helpers and employees over the last 28 years. But have been solo for about the last 10.
The problem I've run into over and over..is that most of my clients want ME to do thier job. Not my helpers, not my subcontractor. So as long as they're willing to pay ME what I want, and and long as these old legs will carry me up the ladders, I'll continue on and let the coroner pry the paintbrush from my cold, stiff hand.

genecarp

things you must do to shift your current company model, to the new model you described
1-start interviewing guys(get ready to go through 20 to get 1 good employee
2-this one is tough, lower your standards and expectations NOONE WILL DO IT LIKE YOU
3-learn to accept that there are several ways to approach a job, your employees will not do things like you, dont get caught up in the process, as long as the end result is acceptable
4-start to introduce, and get your client base comfortable with the new employee. be there with them until they are accepted.
5-pray, and be patiant, its a big trick to teach an old dog.

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back@it

Steve, I hear everything that your're saying! I too have been through the 'employee' thing and it's just a real pain. For sure, we are not ALL cut out to deal with having employees! Some are.

I also know what you are saying about your customers wanting you! Maybe I will be able to just do the sub thing with newly acquired customers - ones that I haven't done work for yet but that got my name through someone? Referral method (for me) almost always means I will get the job - provided I'm somewhere in the pricing ballpark! The new customer might just think that's the way I do my work, maybe!

Thanks for the reply and go out there and stir up some paint today!

back@it

Thanks, I have heard all this before! AND what's really bad is that I know it's all TRUE!

1) - What are good questions that can be asked that will prove to me that what he is telling me is true? My experience has proven that 'most' guys will tell you anything you want to hear! Then you waste all that time... Seems for me that the only sure fire way of knowing whether they are 'good' or not is actually hire them for a week or two and make a determination if they have it or not.

2) - YEAH! That IS a tough one..

3) - Again, this is right! I just need to 'buy' into it...

...and so on! Thanks for your input, I do value it.

Steve Richards

As soon as the sun gets up I will be stirring some paint.
(If you read my reply in the "green painter" thread, you'll see I'm painting cabinet doors in my garage. I just gotta give 1 side another coat of oil, and then I'll be taking my kid to the movies. Floor guys are sanding at that job today).

Anyhow...I wish you luck.

I don't really get many new customers, because I don't advertise. I hesitate to say that, because I got flamed here last time I did. Someone even told me that I my business was in trouble if I don't go looking for more work.

Often I even "anti-advertise" (ask people to NOT to give my name out) and right now, I'm trying to decide which of the jobs that I have lined up, can wait until next year.

But again, I hope it works out for you. Being old sucks. Being an old painter sucks even more. At some point I may have to tell people "I'm to old for your job..let me introduce you to my subcontractor, he'll do (almost) as good a job for you as I used to".

ProWallGuy

I understand where both of you are coming from. I was there several years back myself. But, until you realize that these feelings are just plain BS, nothing will ever change. Customers don't care who does it, as long as it is done like they want or expect.

Case in point: Do you ever go to KFC to buy some fried chicken? If you do, and like their product, do you really think the Colonel is back there cooking it for you? Hell no, the Colonel trained people to cook it like that.

The same can be done for any business. You need to create systems and procedures for everything you do at work, and train people to do it that (your) way. It ain't easy, and will take time to create, and even more time to implement. And an even harder task is to train your people and trust them to do the work. You need to let go of the fallacy that no one can do it as good as you, or that the customer only wants you. A good place to start learning about systems would be to browse around Brian Phillips website. You can also look into the E-myth series by Michael Gerber.

Remember, however you do your work, it is not some secret technique that no one but yourself can master. It can be taught to anyone willing to learn. And I'd bet my paycheck that 99% of your customers (like mine) wouldn't know the difference between a good job, and a great job. I say these things because like I said before, I was once in your shoes too. Things can be changed (for the better), but only if you have the courage to do it.

Think about it.

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Professional Wallpaper Installations in St. Louis
Award Winning Murals Installations

Steve Richards

Absolutely, PWG. Most of my clients wouldn't know the difference between a great paint job and a crappy one.

Anyone can do "it" as good as I can. But my people want me for more than my painting abilities (probably mostly my good looks).

Besides..if I quit painting, what would I do?

I already get as many and any days off I want.

I guess I could hang around here and paint (for free) for the Mrs.

she's been after me for years to paint our kitchen cabinets...and right now I'm painting someone else's out in the garage...heh

back@it

PWG, I tried to portray it as a 'misconception' on MY part! Maybe I failed to do so? You ARE correct on all your points, particularly customers wouldn't know the difference between a good job and a great job UNLESS they were shown the differences. (I've actually done work for people that had colors up on their ceilings and after I'm done OR EVEN WHILE I'm doing the cut-in at the ceiling, they are amazed that they never noticed their BAD job before! Go figure.)

Anyway, I DO understand that I should have started this process a few years back but I'm ready to start it now! Thanks for the great feedback I really do appreciate it.

MakDeco

My situation is very close to your steve.. and back@it I hear ya I am similar expect that I am not at that age and I often wonder what I will be doing at your age

I carry one guy full time for the most part. I have decided this year to pick up one more in which has been a complete disaster I guess I have a few more to go thru to get that "one".

All tho Back@it, I do save for my retirement as my wife works and am able to use some of her money to pay for personal bills and allows me to put away for us for later in life. I say sometimes I put too much away and hurts the bottom line now but I know that it will help later.

As for giving you advice... good luck in trying to find maybe "one" good guy to move you along for a few more years!

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MAK Deco

back@it

I'm not looking to 'hire' someone as an employee - which seems like what a couple of you fellows think! Again - I'm wanting to find two or three good dependable crews and just sub out my larger jobs, say like large exteriors that come in for quotes now and again.

NO WAY am I thinking about hiring and going down that 'pothole' filled path! The way I figure it - if these crews are already in business and doing reputable work in my general market, I can go out and sell the job based on my reputation and quote it at what I would want for doing the job (which I am BETTING is going to be considerably HIGHER than theirs - I say that because it's common knowledge that MANY younger guys going at it on their own tend to give away their work for a lot of years before some of them learn!). Then I can continue doing jobs I can comfortably handle and at the same time I'm putting in my time, there are two or three other crews out doing work under me and I'm making $ on them as well. It's kind of like the guys here that put up with 'employees' but without the hassle!

MakDeco

Good luck with that and when the "good crews' start taking your work its all downhill from there.

I miss understood mostly when people refer to "crew" they refer to guys they are hiring

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MAK Deco

back@it

I hear what you're saying. But keep in mind many 'hired hands' do their share of scooping up those 'side' jobs from the boss-man as well! There's just no garantees when dealing with...people!

MakDeco

I agree but when there hired hands on your payroll there's a little more control.

In the end clients that are good will respect you and not hire your crew out from under you

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MAK Deco

THINKPAINTING

If you want to be a man show in my area, you better make big bucks.....

If you can support your family pay all your bills have health insurance $10,000-12,000 a year in my area then God bless ya.

Thats working 7-8 months a year, weather will kill ya outside and selling interior repaints is like hitting the lottery no matter how hard ya advertise.....

The other killer is when the economy goes south so does all your fellow painting companys and painters rates.....everyone stars to panic and works for less..it takes alot more work to sell the job and justfy your price.

It absolutely amazes me how little painters will work for and most think they are making money.

davy crockett

sounds like you should have been a plumber,(kidding) but being a one man paint show is hard work(I've done it), you might be a little late for this particular gig as you may have to shoot somebody. I say you would prolly make a great superintendant or project manager for a big outfit and the workload would definitely be less(so would the $$) but what are looking at in 5 years if you're still firing guys and your byline is "gimme that brush and let me just do it myself". If you do make it work your customer base will adjust itself in 3-4 years and folks that trust you will still trust you. I think you are prolly easier to please than you let on and as those pops and cracks get more frequent you'll also adjust. BTW I saw a guy the other day on a 40' extension ladder and I thought he was crazy,15 years ago I was on a 60 footer with a hotdog roller on an extension pole. Good luck to ya' and I too wish I had put a little more aside and I'm just shy of half of 80

back@it

Man you sure said a MOUTHFULL there!

I too find it amazing! Several months ago I lost a small interior job (a nice days work!) doing walls and trim in two 'loft' bedrooms, a bathroom, drywall repair and paint one wall in dining room, and touch up a few places in a hallway - my quote was ~$950 - IIRC. The other guy came in at $450 INCLUDING the paint!

I don't get it!

Dave Mac

Every whear I go I keep my eye out for painters. If they look neat, and a have a decent looking work truck, I usually spark up a conversation. I ask if they are are interestead in subbing, and most are, then in a respectiville way, I ask them some questions, I find out who they have worked for , how long, if the have ins, if they are married, and so on. If I like how all this goes, i then put their name and number in my book. Check on the reference's. If this all works out I try to line up their first job a easy one, whear the HO is not going to be around, such as a empty house or a exterior, once they start the work I keep a close eye on the job, (but i do not micro manage).

Its all about building relationships, and trusting one another, if you have their best interest at hand, and they have yours it should be a win win.

I think when some goes bad, its because of someone not living up to their end of the agreement.

Very important to pay on time, no excuses, not paying on time will wreck a good relationship in a minute,

Also very important to have a very clear scope of work between you and the sub.

Once you find the right one it is a very nice way to make a living, but never take them for granted.

dave

ps
Trust your gut feelings as well. And never stop looking even when everything is going good, keep a list going.

back@it

THAT'S what I'm talkin' about, Dave Mac!

You hit the nail smack on the head - It really is truely about building relationships. Everybody is not out to screw somebody else. There are still lots of good hearted people in the world it just takes time to find them and start working on that relationship.

Thanks for that reply, you are dead-on!