more peicework questions - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

needham · 02-19-2007, 04:51 PM

how much out of the total project are you areing for peicework? 30%,25%,40%? say if you have a $10000 project would you set $3000 aside for labor? thanks guys I really enjoy the info and points of view shared here

Danahy · 02-19-2007, 05:31 PM

What percentage are you doing? are you subbing / laboring out the whole thing?

Brian · 02-19-2007, 06:10 PM

It would depend on who is supplying materials and equipment. If the piecework is entirely for labor, 30% to 35% is common. Otherwise, about 50% is a good number.

As a general rule of thumb, your direct costs-- labor, equipment, and materials-- should be about 50% of the job's revenues.

These numbers are only a general guideline. You will need to determine your own costs and what is appropriate.

Brian Phillips

needham · 02-19-2007, 07:06 PM

well it is a deal like this......if I am re-painting apartments @ $260 per unit...I am wondering if I could pick up 4 guys put them in the same apartment, and "piecework" each guy $15 per unit ($60total) and put $200 per unit in my pocket?

LennyV-NHSNOLA · 02-19-2007, 10:58 PM

Damn. This must be "Starve A Trade" day.

Can you really find someone to work that cheap? If so, why is apartment owner/manager not doing the same? I thought $260/unit was el cheapo... even if just white on white paint with little or no prep. I'm guessing you are thinking these guys can finish a unit in an hour so they are making $15/hr.... right? They are either really fast painters who will do a decent job or the paint jobs are going to look really el cheapo... but if that's all the owner wants, I guess it's up to the owner... just don't put your "good name" on the job. For these types of jobs, do a 2nd company as a d/b/a called "El Cheapo Painters" (No hable english).

Dave Mac · 02-20-2007, 08:03 AM

15 hr aint gonna make your piece workers happy, probaly wont work , if thats all they are gonna make imo

needham · 02-20-2007, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Mac

15 hr aint gonna make your piece workers happy, probaly wont work , if thats all they are gonna make imo

understood....I quess I think about it like this this.... I have a 16g account and I can pay 4-5 guys 1g each and turn it in a week. I mean most people walking down the street dont make 1g per week. There are a lot of apartments to paint in my area (college town) and for the most part they are easy to spray/roll. The apartment complex supplies the paint, I supply the labor. I know I can make 70g a year doing this and only work about 2 months a year. It is just finding amigos or people in general that like to make faster money and are willing to work a little for it.

Dont get me wrong, I do not really consider myself to be anywhere near the level of painter you guys are.

But i can make a lot of extra money do this(I still carry insurance and that bit) until I can break into residential repaints and/or new construction and be in business full time. Hopefully this will be a good starting point for me.

thanks so much for the insight and feedback...all you have to say is wanted, needed, and taken seriously

boman47k · 02-20-2007, 11:32 AM

Quote:

I can pay 4-5 guys 1g each and turn it in a week

Take a lot of hours at $15 per to equal $1000 in a week.

needham · 02-20-2007, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boman47k

Take a lot of hours at $15 per to equal $1000 in a week.

66.66 hours to be exact

there are many ways to skin the cat,, I just need to find the best one, the one where everyone can make money. Over time I really think I can take control of a good market here(not a whole lot of painters, but a good demand stream), I just need to get a good starting point. OR maybe I am strongly confused and delusional.

LennyV-NHSNOLA · 02-20-2007, 12:25 PM

I hope you realize that property owners, generally, are not stupid people. When they see you using small crews to get things done, they will do their homework and cut your prices in half the next time, or hire some college kids themselves. I'm surprised that Student Painters or Tuition Painters or one of the many other "student based" painting companies is not in your area making life rough on you in that market.

If you can get away with it, go for it though. I'm all for people making as much money as possible but remember if your profits are running in the 50-70% range, you are probably going to attract some stiff competition in a very short time.... probably your own ex-employees. I know that if I was ever working for someone making that kind of profit on my labor, I'd be out of there in a second and have my own shingle hung the next day!

needham · 02-20-2007, 04:10 PM

Lenny..thanks for the in sight. For the most part I have found and heard that this market, here where I am is pretty lazy... meaning that they just want it done for whatever the price is, with-in some type of budjet... now with that being said 2 years ago those apts that I would bid at $250-275 each(they paid $275 last year) were paying $350 each until the lowballers rolled in. As far I know the lowballers are not here anymore or at least not carrying any real force. I know a guy that has painted here only doing apt. turns and has made it. He would call the job center or unemployment office and pay $6/hr! So I think $15 average should get half decent guys that are trainable. Not to mention with my "normal" job that I have a good tap on the college kids and hispanic(and all of them have proper documintation) communities. So really I guess I need go did my ass off and see what contracts I can get. thanks for all the feedback!

boman47k · 02-20-2007, 05:00 PM

Needham, how far are you from the Muscle Shaols area here in Nw Al? seems like you could get some pretty good painters for $15 an hour.

By the way, good to hear from a few from this general area.

Joewho · 02-20-2007, 11:06 PM

In my journeys here in LV, someone offered me 40/unit to spray apts.

I guess someone will do it, but not me. No matter how broke I am.

needham · 02-21-2007, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joewho

In my journeys here in LV, someone offered me 40/unit to spray apts.

I guess someone will do it, but not me. No matter how broke I am.

yOu know that is funny the first apts. I ever painted was 40-1br/1ba.....45 for 2b/1ba and 50 for 2b/2ba..... I sprayed them and could turn 3 per hour when i really hulstled.......... no prep just go back and wipe paint off outlet covers!

THIS IS FROM A COMPANY THAT HAS 28000 APT UNITS IN 7 STATES...what is even worse that that can find people to do it. Which really is not that bad( college kid part time extra money) ......unless you are trying to run a business

BASE Painters · 02-21-2007, 08:37 AM

Yea I went to see a property manager in Denver about exterior work. He then asked if I would like to see his apts and said he could give me a lot of work, I said sure. He wanted to pay 400 for a 1000Sg foot apt to paint walls and ceilings different colors, trim work and to sand the cabinets and paint them as well. Never the less I kind of laughed at him.

MakDeco · 02-21-2007, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joewho

In my journeys here in LV, someone offered me 40/unit to spray apts.

I guess someone will do it, but not me. No matter how broke I am.

Someone said in another post once, that I can go broke sitting on my couch before I'll do it working my but off for little money

boman47k · 02-21-2007, 11:12 AM

Quote:

I sprayed them and could turn 3 per hour when i really hulstled.......... no prep just go back and wipe paint off outlet covers

I can't even imagine that. Spray the br fixtures too?! Little to no experience on spraying here. No interior at all.

needham · 02-21-2007, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boman47k

I can't even imagine that. Spray the br fixtures too?! Little to no experience on spraying here. No interior at all.

I will try my best not to sound like a hack by saying this. I can spray and wipe a 1 bed room at this property in 15 minutes or less. NO cut ins whatso ever UNLESS the walls have lots of stains/scuffs. I set my sprayer fairly low pressure and lightly coat the wall as fast as I can. Then wipe down outlet covers. Bathrooms are semi gloss so many times do not "require" painting. All walls have a orange peel or splatter texture to them. The paint blends REALLY well and the property manager is happy and the new tenent has that "new paint smell". And it really looks good when I leave the apartment, believe it or not.

Would I paint other properties or someones Living room like this HELL NO. But everyone is happy and I get paid.

Brushslingers · 02-21-2007, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by needham

I will try my best not to sound like a hack by saying this. I can spray and wipe a 1 bed room at this property in 15 minutes or less. NO cut ins whatso ever UNLESS the walls have lots of stains/scuffs. I set my sprayer fairly low pressure and lightly coat the wall as fast as I can. Then wipe down outlet covers. Bathrooms are semi gloss so many times do not "require" painting. All walls have a orange peel or splatter texture to them. The paint blends REALLY well and the property manager is happy and the new tenent has that "new paint smell". And it really looks good when I leave the apartment, believe it or not.

Would I paint other properties or someones Living room like this HELL NO. But everyone is happy and I get paid.

Interesting, most states have a requirement that the entire interior be re-painted between tenants... but hey, long as your getting what needs to be done....

boman47k · 02-21-2007, 03:13 PM

Whew! Thats fast. It would take me that long just cover the floors. Wit my non experience with interior spraying, not sure about the overspray on windows. Maybe I need to learn to spray.

What do you wipe the covers off with to get paint that has started to dry off?